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Gerson Therapy for Melanoma Explained

Forums General Melanoma Community Gerson Therapy for Melanoma Explained

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      MichaelFL
      Participant

        I sincerely hope you don't believe everything you watch on Youtube.

        MichaelFL
        Participant

          I sincerely hope you don't believe everything you watch on Youtube.

          MichaelFL
          Participant

            I sincerely hope you don't believe everything you watch on Youtube.

              Linny
              Participant

                Since when has sticking to a diet of organic vegetables ever harmed anyone? And, statistically, how much worse can the response rate to Gerson Therapy be in comparison to that of Interferon or Interleukin?

                JC
                Participant

                  only harms your pocketbook!  it's darn expensive

                  Linny
                  Participant

                    So are Interferon and Interleukin. What's your point? laugh

                    Janner
                    Participant

                      Interferon and IL-2 have been subject to clinical trials.  Science.  You know the odds up front and can decide if they are what you want.  Gerson?  Nope.  Just "testimonials" and coffee enemas.  No clinical data to compare results.  And out of pocket money…

                      Gene_S
                      Participant

                        What amazes me the most is when the patient is on their deathbed and then they go to Gerson as a last hope treatment.

                        If it fails they blame alt treatments instead of the very toxic treatments that they have already taken.

                        Possibly if they went and did the Gerson treatment FIRST and it didn't work then they should try IL2. It's is well established that interferon does very little for melanoma but they keep pushing it as a hope that the patient is doing something and they are making a lot of money.

                        Cooper
                        Participant

                          You are absolutely correct about Interferon, it doesn't do anything yet they still push it because it is a big money maker!  How about 5 years of it that's the new peg-interferon!!  How much does that add up to and yet still doesn't prevent a recur.  IL2 is another big moneymaker, intensive care for a few days and then put the toxic stuff altogether in bio-chemo and you've got another profit maker that is useless.  So Gene you hit the nail on the head!  All this stuff ruins your immune system so you end up worse off than if you did an enema.

                          Cooper
                          Participant

                            You are absolutely correct about Interferon, it doesn't do anything yet they still push it because it is a big money maker!  How about 5 years of it that's the new peg-interferon!!  How much does that add up to and yet still doesn't prevent a recur.  IL2 is another big moneymaker, intensive care for a few days and then put the toxic stuff altogether in bio-chemo and you've got another profit maker that is useless.  So Gene you hit the nail on the head!  All this stuff ruins your immune system so you end up worse off than if you did an enema.

                            Cooper
                            Participant

                              You are absolutely correct about Interferon, it doesn't do anything yet they still push it because it is a big money maker!  How about 5 years of it that's the new peg-interferon!!  How much does that add up to and yet still doesn't prevent a recur.  IL2 is another big moneymaker, intensive care for a few days and then put the toxic stuff altogether in bio-chemo and you've got another profit maker that is useless.  So Gene you hit the nail on the head!  All this stuff ruins your immune system so you end up worse off than if you did an enema.

                              Gene_S
                              Participant

                                What amazes me the most is when the patient is on their deathbed and then they go to Gerson as a last hope treatment.

                                If it fails they blame alt treatments instead of the very toxic treatments that they have already taken.

                                Possibly if they went and did the Gerson treatment FIRST and it didn't work then they should try IL2. It's is well established that interferon does very little for melanoma but they keep pushing it as a hope that the patient is doing something and they are making a lot of money.

                                Gene_S
                                Participant

                                  What amazes me the most is when the patient is on their deathbed and then they go to Gerson as a last hope treatment.

                                  If it fails they blame alt treatments instead of the very toxic treatments that they have already taken.

                                  Possibly if they went and did the Gerson treatment FIRST and it didn't work then they should try IL2. It's is well established that interferon does very little for melanoma but they keep pushing it as a hope that the patient is doing something and they are making a lot of money.

                                  Janner
                                  Participant

                                    Interferon and IL-2 have been subject to clinical trials.  Science.  You know the odds up front and can decide if they are what you want.  Gerson?  Nope.  Just "testimonials" and coffee enemas.  No clinical data to compare results.  And out of pocket money…

                                    Janner
                                    Participant

                                      Interferon and IL-2 have been subject to clinical trials.  Science.  You know the odds up front and can decide if they are what you want.  Gerson?  Nope.  Just "testimonials" and coffee enemas.  No clinical data to compare results.  And out of pocket money…

                                      Linny
                                      Participant

                                        So are Interferon and Interleukin. What's your point? laugh

                                        Linny
                                        Participant

                                          So are Interferon and Interleukin. What's your point? laugh

                                          JC
                                          Participant

                                            only harms your pocketbook!  it's darn expensive

                                            JC
                                            Participant

                                              only harms your pocketbook!  it's darn expensive

                                              Linny
                                              Participant

                                                Since when has sticking to a diet of organic vegetables ever harmed anyone? And, statistically, how much worse can the response rate to Gerson Therapy be in comparison to that of Interferon or Interleukin?

                                                Linny
                                                Participant

                                                  Since when has sticking to a diet of organic vegetables ever harmed anyone? And, statistically, how much worse can the response rate to Gerson Therapy be in comparison to that of Interferon or Interleukin?

                                                MikeWI
                                                Participant

                                                  I have no interest in treatments like the Gerson therpy until there has been hard scientific evidence that proves this treatment is effective.  There is no evidence that it is effective. I need more information other than a few testimonals. But I will also say that eating a good diet never hurt anyone.

                                                  I said this in a previous post.  Interferon is not toxic, it is a natural chemical secreted by our bodies to fight infection.  There also has been some studies that indicate it is more effective in fighting some types of melanoma especially with the melanoma is ulcerated.  It has been also used to treat hepatitous and MS.

                                                  I strongly disagree with the post that oncologists are proscribing interferon and IL2 because they want to make money off of it.  I will tell you that my oncologist does NOT view me as a profit center.  Nor due I believe that drug companies are only offering it as treatment to make money.  Interferon along with surgery are the only treatment options currently available for stage 2/3.

                                                  I did interferon for a year ending in September.  I was very sick. It was the right decision for me, I am glad I did it.

                                                  MikeWI

                                                  stage 2c, currently NED

                                                    Cooper
                                                    Participant

                                                      Mike, so happy to hear you are doing well.  Interferon, or Intron A, is a man made chemical and it makes people sick because it isn't like the naturally made interferon found in your body.  There are other choices for stage 2/3,  mage and IPI for instance.  But the point is you shouldn't be naive about this whole business of making money. Your doc makes a lot of money off of interferon vs. if you did watch and wait or a clinical trial.  The infusions bring in lots of money, the drug is costly.  The income is split between the doc and the drug company.  The other drugs we mentioned that aren't proven, IL2 and biochemo also bring in huge profits but have little response rate for patients.  It is all about money sadly.

                                                      Janner
                                                      Participant

                                                        If everything is all about money and it's all a big racket…. doctor's on the take and all that… why do you even hang around here then?  All scientifically proved treatments are going to be covered by insurance and therefore they will be costly.  Clinical trials are incredibly expensive to conduct.  Research requires big money.  Getting drugs through the FDA requires big money.  If the drug fails in trials, the drug companies get nothing for all the money spent to get to that point.  That's just the way things work.  IL-2, to date, still has the highest rate of long term remission.  It also appears to boost other treatments even if you aren't a total responder.  Yes, it's a tough drug.  But there are no drugs out there (including semi-cheap all natural ones) that cure melanoma.  If it isn't proven, then most people aren't going to try it.  At least these drugs give you the response rate as part of their literature. Not testimonials.   It's not as if they are hiding that they don't work on all people.  If this is all a racket, then why hang around a BB where the vast majority are going to do expensive scientifically proved treatments?  Why not find a nice Alternative Treatment site?  Hang out with like minded folk?  Healthcare is big business, but it doesn't mean that every doctor out there is just prescribing stuff because it brings himi or her money.  Some actually want to help their patients.

                                                        Cooper
                                                        Participant

                                                          I do hang out mostly in another melanoma forum where they discuss melanoma treatments of the 21st Century rather than the frequently failing stuff of the 20th century. Never said I approved of the Gerson or other stuff out there.  but I've educated myself on the new drugs that have replaced those that are toxic and have little response..

                                                          MikeWI
                                                          Participant

                                                            Interferon has been known of since the 50's to medical science.  For the longest time it could only be harvested from medical cadavers and only in very small amounts.  Up until the early 80's it was extremly expensive.  You are talking millions of dollars for a dose.  Interferon when discovered was considered to be a miracle cancer cure and was tried on many forms of cancer.  Starting in the late 1970's via a gene splicing process of a mold, interferon could be created much cheaper and in greater quantities.  This is the process used for for making Intron A.  Technically the person who stated that intron A is man made in this post in correct.  But interferon itself is still a naturally occurring substance in our bodies.  It is in minute quantities and is not consider toxic by our bodies.  It triggers a response of our immune system. 

                                                            For the view point of doctors and drug companies prescribing interferon only to make money.  I cannot subscribe to that point of view.  My oncologist did not prescribe interferon treatment so he can drive a black Jaguar.  He prescribed it because it was the only treatment available at stage 2.  He also felt that it may extend my life long enough until treatments currently in trials become much better and are ready for general use.  And I have not seen any signs of my cancer since May 25, 2011.

                                                            Interferon is still expensive, the process used to create Intron A reduced the cost significantly from millions of dollars to thousands of dollars.  Intron A is still very hard to produce.  My induction phase(heavy dose) ran about thirty five thousand dollars.  The intron was first created in a sterile environment which I assume is a lot of the cost.  It was produced according to FDA guidelines.  It was prescribed to me by my oncologist and administered to me in the chemo center at the carbone cancer center by an RN.  At no time did I see my oncologist jump for joy because of the money he was making.

                                                            Getting back to the topic onhand.  Yes eating a diet with more vegatables and fiber is good for us.  But until I see hard empirical data scientific data that it is effective treatment for melanoma treatment,  I will choose to ignore it.  I need to rely on more than a few testimonals.  Those peoples giving the testimonals may have had unidentified facters involved that prevented their cancer from coming back.

                                                            Thanks,

                                                            MikeWI

                                                            stage 2c NED since 5/25/2011

                                                            Cooper
                                                            Participant

                                                              Yes and since those days the American Society of Clinical Oncology stated interferon "does not extend overall survival" for melanoma patients.  Whatever the reason, congrats on being without disease.  But many here have stated that they think Gerson therapy is a hoax, that isn't the argument.  What was originally said in this thread is that old treatments like interferon and IL2 maybe deplete the immune system and could be compared with the voodoo medicine.  We all agree with you that Gerson etc is baloney.  What we disagree on is that interferon is the only therapy for stage 2 and 3.  And that it works.  The empirical data on it shows it may extend the time for recur by 8 months but as said by ASCO not affect overall survival.  And yes, your doc probably does drive a Jaguar.  Or is it a Porsche?

                                                              Cooper
                                                              Participant

                                                                Yes and since those days the American Society of Clinical Oncology stated interferon "does not extend overall survival" for melanoma patients.  Whatever the reason, congrats on being without disease.  But many here have stated that they think Gerson therapy is a hoax, that isn't the argument.  What was originally said in this thread is that old treatments like interferon and IL2 maybe deplete the immune system and could be compared with the voodoo medicine.  We all agree with you that Gerson etc is baloney.  What we disagree on is that interferon is the only therapy for stage 2 and 3.  And that it works.  The empirical data on it shows it may extend the time for recur by 8 months but as said by ASCO not affect overall survival.  And yes, your doc probably does drive a Jaguar.  Or is it a Porsche?

                                                                MikeWI
                                                                Participant

                                                                  Dear last anonymous,

                                                                  I actually rather enjoyed reading your last post.  I think the oncologist I work with actually drives a VW mini bus as I believe him to be a survivor on the late 60's radicalism here at the UW campus.  I think he has it painted many colors with large bloches of primer showing.

                                                                  Thanks you for the congrats on being NED.  A year ago when I started interferon, there were not many options for treatment of stage 2.  After begining treatment I read about a clinical study starting, but would have been excluded due having started interferon.  Zelbo and yervoy are avaliable for later stage treatments,  we really need to find some effective treatment for early stages of this disease.

                                                                  I am in agreement with you about this.  The interferon may or may not have been effective.  Only time will tell on that.  I knew that when I started and chose what was best for my family.   I was willing to try something rather than waiting for the disease to come back.  The oncologist stated to me that in his years of practice that he had never seen a tumor as deep as mine (7mm) that did not move to the lymphatic system.  I would rather go down fighting than just give up.

                                                                  One question I wanted to ask is about Interferon and IL2 harming our immune system.  If that were to be the case, then why are stage 2/3 patients who do these treatments not open to secondary infections such as Flu or TB.  You would think that if the immune system is compromised by the treatment in the long term some other more common disease would become fatal.

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks,

                                                                  MikeWI

                                                                  stage 2c, Currently NED

                                                                  PS I wish you had a user account here.  You have some good ideas, I wish I knew who I was talking with.

                                                                  MikeWI
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    Dear last anonymous,

                                                                    I actually rather enjoyed reading your last post.  I think the oncologist I work with actually drives a VW mini bus as I believe him to be a survivor on the late 60's radicalism here at the UW campus.  I think he has it painted many colors with large bloches of primer showing.

                                                                    Thanks you for the congrats on being NED.  A year ago when I started interferon, there were not many options for treatment of stage 2.  After begining treatment I read about a clinical study starting, but would have been excluded due having started interferon.  Zelbo and yervoy are avaliable for later stage treatments,  we really need to find some effective treatment for early stages of this disease.

                                                                    I am in agreement with you about this.  The interferon may or may not have been effective.  Only time will tell on that.  I knew that when I started and chose what was best for my family.   I was willing to try something rather than waiting for the disease to come back.  The oncologist stated to me that in his years of practice that he had never seen a tumor as deep as mine (7mm) that did not move to the lymphatic system.  I would rather go down fighting than just give up.

                                                                    One question I wanted to ask is about Interferon and IL2 harming our immune system.  If that were to be the case, then why are stage 2/3 patients who do these treatments not open to secondary infections such as Flu or TB.  You would think that if the immune system is compromised by the treatment in the long term some other more common disease would become fatal.

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                    MikeWI

                                                                    stage 2c, Currently NED

                                                                    PS I wish you had a user account here.  You have some good ideas, I wish I knew who I was talking with.

                                                                    Gene_S
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      It should be noted here that the so called "War on Cancer" was started in 1971 when Nixon was President. After BILLIONS of dollars have been spent on research the question now should be why we haven't  found a cure? Do you honestly think that the $200 Billion (or more) a year business really wants a cure? What would it do to the economy? What would doctors and nurses do for a living? How could big drug companies sell their so called treatments? How about universities training future health care professionals? Many more companies would be out of business if a cure was found. There would not be a need for this forum group either!

                                                                      Readers of this forum group need to open their eyes and realize that there are other cures for cancer that will never be studied because the cost of doing a clinical trial for sometime like changing your eating habits, avoid sugar etc. could not make any money!   Who would fund such a study?    There are many other options and related cures for cancer if one is wiling to accept the fact that they are never going to be mainstream and offered by your oncologist at least in the USA.

                                                                      To address the point about doctors making a lot of money treating cancer. About my local oncologist, I don't know what kind of car he drives and really don't care. He is one of the finest persons that I have ever met! He is truly dedicated to his job and his patients. The real problem is that he has to conform to "the rules" as far as what he can offer for a treatment. Most doctors have little or no knowledge of nutrition. Why is that? It is part of the system designed by the big drug companies that educate them as well as to wine and dine the future doctors to train them in selling there very expensive drug treatments that may or not work (example interferon) for their type of cancers.

                                                                      Also do you know that prescription drugs are one of the largest killers of people in the USA? Also that only two countries in the world allow prescription drug ads on TV? What do other countries know that we don't ?

                                                                      More good info to open your mind can be found at 

                                                                      http://www.smashcancer.com/2012/02/25/alternative-cancer-treatment-vs-conventional-cancer-treatment-a-paradigm-choice/

                                                                      Best wishes,

                                                                      Gene

                                                                      PS. If you really think that there will be a cure for cancer anytime soon please explain to me why they just spent  $260 million for this project. See: 

                                                                      http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2011/04/university_hospitals_seidman_c.htmlhttp://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2011/04/university_hospitals_seidman_c.html

                                                                      Gene_S
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        It should be noted here that the so called "War on Cancer" was started in 1971 when Nixon was President. After BILLIONS of dollars have been spent on research the question now should be why we haven't  found a cure? Do you honestly think that the $200 Billion (or more) a year business really wants a cure? What would it do to the economy? What would doctors and nurses do for a living? How could big drug companies sell their so called treatments? How about universities training future health care professionals? Many more companies would be out of business if a cure was found. There would not be a need for this forum group either!

                                                                        Readers of this forum group need to open their eyes and realize that there are other cures for cancer that will never be studied because the cost of doing a clinical trial for sometime like changing your eating habits, avoid sugar etc. could not make any money!   Who would fund such a study?    There are many other options and related cures for cancer if one is wiling to accept the fact that they are never going to be mainstream and offered by your oncologist at least in the USA.

                                                                        To address the point about doctors making a lot of money treating cancer. About my local oncologist, I don't know what kind of car he drives and really don't care. He is one of the finest persons that I have ever met! He is truly dedicated to his job and his patients. The real problem is that he has to conform to "the rules" as far as what he can offer for a treatment. Most doctors have little or no knowledge of nutrition. Why is that? It is part of the system designed by the big drug companies that educate them as well as to wine and dine the future doctors to train them in selling there very expensive drug treatments that may or not work (example interferon) for their type of cancers.

                                                                        Also do you know that prescription drugs are one of the largest killers of people in the USA? Also that only two countries in the world allow prescription drug ads on TV? What do other countries know that we don't ?

                                                                        More good info to open your mind can be found at 

                                                                        http://www.smashcancer.com/2012/02/25/alternative-cancer-treatment-vs-conventional-cancer-treatment-a-paradigm-choice/

                                                                        Best wishes,

                                                                        Gene

                                                                        PS. If you really think that there will be a cure for cancer anytime soon please explain to me why they just spent  $260 million for this project. See: 

                                                                        http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2011/04/university_hospitals_seidman_c.htmlhttp://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2011/04/university_hospitals_seidman_c.html

                                                                        Colleen66
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          If, like you say, there will never be a cure, then I should just give up today and shoot myself in the head to spare more pain.  Thanks.

                                                                          Colleen 

                                                                          Colleen66
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            If, like you say, there will never be a cure, then I should just give up today and shoot myself in the head to spare more pain.  Thanks.

                                                                            Colleen 

                                                                            Gene_S
                                                                            Participant

                                                                              Colleen, There will be a cure someday probably when we start doing individualized treatments instead of one treatment for everybody. There are cures outside of the USA, Gerson being one but Gerson won't work for everybody the same as ippi doesn't work for everybody. Most people just assume that the USA provides the best treatments so they don't investigate anything else. A good example is the late President Reagan. He went to Germany for a cure for his cancer.

                                                                              Best wishes to you,

                                                                              Gene

                                                                              Gene_S
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                Colleen, There will be a cure someday probably when we start doing individualized treatments instead of one treatment for everybody. There are cures outside of the USA, Gerson being one but Gerson won't work for everybody the same as ippi doesn't work for everybody. Most people just assume that the USA provides the best treatments so they don't investigate anything else. A good example is the late President Reagan. He went to Germany for a cure for his cancer.

                                                                                Best wishes to you,

                                                                                Gene

                                                                                Gene_S
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  Colleen, There will be a cure someday probably when we start doing individualized treatments instead of one treatment for everybody. There are cures outside of the USA, Gerson being one but Gerson won't work for everybody the same as ippi doesn't work for everybody. Most people just assume that the USA provides the best treatments so they don't investigate anything else. A good example is the late President Reagan. He went to Germany for a cure for his cancer.

                                                                                  Best wishes to you,

                                                                                  Gene

                                                                                  LynnLuc
                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                    Colleen,,,Things I know-

                                                                                    Some people are just angry and want to argue.

                                                                                    No diet is going to cure cancer. 

                                                                                    Coffee enemas are dangerous –http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1021723/

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Here is an interesting link 

                                                                                    http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/cancer-ineffective-anticancer-remedies-coffee-enemas.html

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Every human body reacts differently to treatment, Not all melanoma is the same….there may not be a magic pill that works for everyone, but several different ones. For me, BMS Anti PD 1 has kept me NED so far for  2 years 8 months. I have been stage 4 since June 2009.

                                                                                    LynnLuc
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      Colleen,,,Things I know-

                                                                                      Some people are just angry and want to argue.

                                                                                      No diet is going to cure cancer. 

                                                                                      Coffee enemas are dangerous –http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1021723/

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Here is an interesting link 

                                                                                      http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/cancer-ineffective-anticancer-remedies-coffee-enemas.html

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Every human body reacts differently to treatment, Not all melanoma is the same….there may not be a magic pill that works for everyone, but several different ones. For me, BMS Anti PD 1 has kept me NED so far for  2 years 8 months. I have been stage 4 since June 2009.

                                                                                      LynnLuc
                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                        Colleen,,,Things I know-

                                                                                        Some people are just angry and want to argue.

                                                                                        No diet is going to cure cancer. 

                                                                                        Coffee enemas are dangerous –http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1021723/

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Here is an interesting link 

                                                                                        http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/cancer-ineffective-anticancer-remedies-coffee-enemas.html

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Every human body reacts differently to treatment, Not all melanoma is the same….there may not be a magic pill that works for everyone, but several different ones. For me, BMS Anti PD 1 has kept me NED so far for  2 years 8 months. I have been stage 4 since June 2009.

                                                                                        Colleen66
                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                          If, like you say, there will never be a cure, then I should just give up today and shoot myself in the head to spare more pain.  Thanks.

                                                                                          Colleen 

                                                                                          Gene_S
                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                            It should be noted here that the so called "War on Cancer" was started in 1971 when Nixon was President. After BILLIONS of dollars have been spent on research the question now should be why we haven't  found a cure? Do you honestly think that the $200 Billion (or more) a year business really wants a cure? What would it do to the economy? What would doctors and nurses do for a living? How could big drug companies sell their so called treatments? How about universities training future health care professionals? Many more companies would be out of business if a cure was found. There would not be a need for this forum group either!

                                                                                            Readers of this forum group need to open their eyes and realize that there are other cures for cancer that will never be studied because the cost of doing a clinical trial for sometime like changing your eating habits, avoid sugar etc. could not make any money!   Who would fund such a study?    There are many other options and related cures for cancer if one is wiling to accept the fact that they are never going to be mainstream and offered by your oncologist at least in the USA.

                                                                                            To address the point about doctors making a lot of money treating cancer. About my local oncologist, I don't know what kind of car he drives and really don't care. He is one of the finest persons that I have ever met! He is truly dedicated to his job and his patients. The real problem is that he has to conform to "the rules" as far as what he can offer for a treatment. Most doctors have little or no knowledge of nutrition. Why is that? It is part of the system designed by the big drug companies that educate them as well as to wine and dine the future doctors to train them in selling there very expensive drug treatments that may or not work (example interferon) for their type of cancers.

                                                                                            Also do you know that prescription drugs are one of the largest killers of people in the USA? Also that only two countries in the world allow prescription drug ads on TV? What do other countries know that we don't ?

                                                                                            More good info to open your mind can be found at 

                                                                                            http://www.smashcancer.com/2012/02/25/alternative-cancer-treatment-vs-conventional-cancer-treatment-a-paradigm-choice/

                                                                                            Best wishes,

                                                                                            Gene

                                                                                            PS. If you really think that there will be a cure for cancer anytime soon please explain to me why they just spent  $260 million for this project. See: 

                                                                                            http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2011/04/university_hospitals_seidman_c.htmlhttp://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2011/04/university_hospitals_seidman_c.html

                                                                                            MikeWI
                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                              Dear last anonymous,

                                                                                              I actually rather enjoyed reading your last post.  I think the oncologist I work with actually drives a VW mini bus as I believe him to be a survivor on the late 60's radicalism here at the UW campus.  I think he has it painted many colors with large bloches of primer showing.

                                                                                              Thanks you for the congrats on being NED.  A year ago when I started interferon, there were not many options for treatment of stage 2.  After begining treatment I read about a clinical study starting, but would have been excluded due having started interferon.  Zelbo and yervoy are avaliable for later stage treatments,  we really need to find some effective treatment for early stages of this disease.

                                                                                              I am in agreement with you about this.  The interferon may or may not have been effective.  Only time will tell on that.  I knew that when I started and chose what was best for my family.   I was willing to try something rather than waiting for the disease to come back.  The oncologist stated to me that in his years of practice that he had never seen a tumor as deep as mine (7mm) that did not move to the lymphatic system.  I would rather go down fighting than just give up.

                                                                                              One question I wanted to ask is about Interferon and IL2 harming our immune system.  If that were to be the case, then why are stage 2/3 patients who do these treatments not open to secondary infections such as Flu or TB.  You would think that if the immune system is compromised by the treatment in the long term some other more common disease would become fatal.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                                              MikeWI

                                                                                              stage 2c, Currently NED

                                                                                              PS I wish you had a user account here.  You have some good ideas, I wish I knew who I was talking with.

                                                                                              Cooper
                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                Yes and since those days the American Society of Clinical Oncology stated interferon "does not extend overall survival" for melanoma patients.  Whatever the reason, congrats on being without disease.  But many here have stated that they think Gerson therapy is a hoax, that isn't the argument.  What was originally said in this thread is that old treatments like interferon and IL2 maybe deplete the immune system and could be compared with the voodoo medicine.  We all agree with you that Gerson etc is baloney.  What we disagree on is that interferon is the only therapy for stage 2 and 3.  And that it works.  The empirical data on it shows it may extend the time for recur by 8 months but as said by ASCO not affect overall survival.  And yes, your doc probably does drive a Jaguar.  Or is it a Porsche?

                                                                                                MikeWI
                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                  Interferon has been known of since the 50's to medical science.  For the longest time it could only be harvested from medical cadavers and only in very small amounts.  Up until the early 80's it was extremly expensive.  You are talking millions of dollars for a dose.  Interferon when discovered was considered to be a miracle cancer cure and was tried on many forms of cancer.  Starting in the late 1970's via a gene splicing process of a mold, interferon could be created much cheaper and in greater quantities.  This is the process used for for making Intron A.  Technically the person who stated that intron A is man made in this post in correct.  But interferon itself is still a naturally occurring substance in our bodies.  It is in minute quantities and is not consider toxic by our bodies.  It triggers a response of our immune system. 

                                                                                                  For the view point of doctors and drug companies prescribing interferon only to make money.  I cannot subscribe to that point of view.  My oncologist did not prescribe interferon treatment so he can drive a black Jaguar.  He prescribed it because it was the only treatment available at stage 2.  He also felt that it may extend my life long enough until treatments currently in trials become much better and are ready for general use.  And I have not seen any signs of my cancer since May 25, 2011.

                                                                                                  Interferon is still expensive, the process used to create Intron A reduced the cost significantly from millions of dollars to thousands of dollars.  Intron A is still very hard to produce.  My induction phase(heavy dose) ran about thirty five thousand dollars.  The intron was first created in a sterile environment which I assume is a lot of the cost.  It was produced according to FDA guidelines.  It was prescribed to me by my oncologist and administered to me in the chemo center at the carbone cancer center by an RN.  At no time did I see my oncologist jump for joy because of the money he was making.

                                                                                                  Getting back to the topic onhand.  Yes eating a diet with more vegatables and fiber is good for us.  But until I see hard empirical data scientific data that it is effective treatment for melanoma treatment,  I will choose to ignore it.  I need to rely on more than a few testimonals.  Those peoples giving the testimonals may have had unidentified facters involved that prevented their cancer from coming back.

                                                                                                  Thanks,

                                                                                                  MikeWI

                                                                                                  stage 2c NED since 5/25/2011

                                                                                                  MikeWI
                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                    Interferon has been known of since the 50's to medical science.  For the longest time it could only be harvested from medical cadavers and only in very small amounts.  Up until the early 80's it was extremly expensive.  You are talking millions of dollars for a dose.  Interferon when discovered was considered to be a miracle cancer cure and was tried on many forms of cancer.  Starting in the late 1970's via a gene splicing process of a mold, interferon could be created much cheaper and in greater quantities.  This is the process used for for making Intron A.  Technically the person who stated that intron A is man made in this post in correct.  But interferon itself is still a naturally occurring substance in our bodies.  It is in minute quantities and is not consider toxic by our bodies.  It triggers a response of our immune system. 

                                                                                                    For the view point of doctors and drug companies prescribing interferon only to make money.  I cannot subscribe to that point of view.  My oncologist did not prescribe interferon treatment so he can drive a black Jaguar.  He prescribed it because it was the only treatment available at stage 2.  He also felt that it may extend my life long enough until treatments currently in trials become much better and are ready for general use.  And I have not seen any signs of my cancer since May 25, 2011.

                                                                                                    Interferon is still expensive, the process used to create Intron A reduced the cost significantly from millions of dollars to thousands of dollars.  Intron A is still very hard to produce.  My induction phase(heavy dose) ran about thirty five thousand dollars.  The intron was first created in a sterile environment which I assume is a lot of the cost.  It was produced according to FDA guidelines.  It was prescribed to me by my oncologist and administered to me in the chemo center at the carbone cancer center by an RN.  At no time did I see my oncologist jump for joy because of the money he was making.

                                                                                                    Getting back to the topic onhand.  Yes eating a diet with more vegatables and fiber is good for us.  But until I see hard empirical data scientific data that it is effective treatment for melanoma treatment,  I will choose to ignore it.  I need to rely on more than a few testimonals.  Those peoples giving the testimonals may have had unidentified facters involved that prevented their cancer from coming back.

                                                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                                                    MikeWI

                                                                                                    stage 2c NED since 5/25/2011

                                                                                                    Cooper
                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                      I do hang out mostly in another melanoma forum where they discuss melanoma treatments of the 21st Century rather than the frequently failing stuff of the 20th century. Never said I approved of the Gerson or other stuff out there.  but I've educated myself on the new drugs that have replaced those that are toxic and have little response..

                                                                                                      Cooper
                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                        I do hang out mostly in another melanoma forum where they discuss melanoma treatments of the 21st Century rather than the frequently failing stuff of the 20th century. Never said I approved of the Gerson or other stuff out there.  but I've educated myself on the new drugs that have replaced those that are toxic and have little response..

                                                                                                        Janner
                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                          If everything is all about money and it's all a big racket…. doctor's on the take and all that… why do you even hang around here then?  All scientifically proved treatments are going to be covered by insurance and therefore they will be costly.  Clinical trials are incredibly expensive to conduct.  Research requires big money.  Getting drugs through the FDA requires big money.  If the drug fails in trials, the drug companies get nothing for all the money spent to get to that point.  That's just the way things work.  IL-2, to date, still has the highest rate of long term remission.  It also appears to boost other treatments even if you aren't a total responder.  Yes, it's a tough drug.  But there are no drugs out there (including semi-cheap all natural ones) that cure melanoma.  If it isn't proven, then most people aren't going to try it.  At least these drugs give you the response rate as part of their literature. Not testimonials.   It's not as if they are hiding that they don't work on all people.  If this is all a racket, then why hang around a BB where the vast majority are going to do expensive scientifically proved treatments?  Why not find a nice Alternative Treatment site?  Hang out with like minded folk?  Healthcare is big business, but it doesn't mean that every doctor out there is just prescribing stuff because it brings himi or her money.  Some actually want to help their patients.

                                                                                                          Janner
                                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                                            If everything is all about money and it's all a big racket…. doctor's on the take and all that… why do you even hang around here then?  All scientifically proved treatments are going to be covered by insurance and therefore they will be costly.  Clinical trials are incredibly expensive to conduct.  Research requires big money.  Getting drugs through the FDA requires big money.  If the drug fails in trials, the drug companies get nothing for all the money spent to get to that point.  That's just the way things work.  IL-2, to date, still has the highest rate of long term remission.  It also appears to boost other treatments even if you aren't a total responder.  Yes, it's a tough drug.  But there are no drugs out there (including semi-cheap all natural ones) that cure melanoma.  If it isn't proven, then most people aren't going to try it.  At least these drugs give you the response rate as part of their literature. Not testimonials.   It's not as if they are hiding that they don't work on all people.  If this is all a racket, then why hang around a BB where the vast majority are going to do expensive scientifically proved treatments?  Why not find a nice Alternative Treatment site?  Hang out with like minded folk?  Healthcare is big business, but it doesn't mean that every doctor out there is just prescribing stuff because it brings himi or her money.  Some actually want to help their patients.

                                                                                                            Cooper
                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                              Mike, so happy to hear you are doing well.  Interferon, or Intron A, is a man made chemical and it makes people sick because it isn't like the naturally made interferon found in your body.  There are other choices for stage 2/3,  mage and IPI for instance.  But the point is you shouldn't be naive about this whole business of making money. Your doc makes a lot of money off of interferon vs. if you did watch and wait or a clinical trial.  The infusions bring in lots of money, the drug is costly.  The income is split between the doc and the drug company.  The other drugs we mentioned that aren't proven, IL2 and biochemo also bring in huge profits but have little response rate for patients.  It is all about money sadly.

                                                                                                              Cooper
                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                Mike, so happy to hear you are doing well.  Interferon, or Intron A, is a man made chemical and it makes people sick because it isn't like the naturally made interferon found in your body.  There are other choices for stage 2/3,  mage and IPI for instance.  But the point is you shouldn't be naive about this whole business of making money. Your doc makes a lot of money off of interferon vs. if you did watch and wait or a clinical trial.  The infusions bring in lots of money, the drug is costly.  The income is split between the doc and the drug company.  The other drugs we mentioned that aren't proven, IL2 and biochemo also bring in huge profits but have little response rate for patients.  It is all about money sadly.

                                                                                                              MikeWI
                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                I have no interest in treatments like the Gerson therpy until there has been hard scientific evidence that proves this treatment is effective.  There is no evidence that it is effective. I need more information other than a few testimonals. But I will also say that eating a good diet never hurt anyone.

                                                                                                                I said this in a previous post.  Interferon is not toxic, it is a natural chemical secreted by our bodies to fight infection.  There also has been some studies that indicate it is more effective in fighting some types of melanoma especially with the melanoma is ulcerated.  It has been also used to treat hepatitous and MS.

                                                                                                                I strongly disagree with the post that oncologists are proscribing interferon and IL2 because they want to make money off of it.  I will tell you that my oncologist does NOT view me as a profit center.  Nor due I believe that drug companies are only offering it as treatment to make money.  Interferon along with surgery are the only treatment options currently available for stage 2/3.

                                                                                                                I did interferon for a year ending in September.  I was very sick. It was the right decision for me, I am glad I did it.

                                                                                                                MikeWI

                                                                                                                stage 2c, currently NED

                                                                                                                MikeWI
                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                  I have no interest in treatments like the Gerson therpy until there has been hard scientific evidence that proves this treatment is effective.  There is no evidence that it is effective. I need more information other than a few testimonals. But I will also say that eating a good diet never hurt anyone.

                                                                                                                  I said this in a previous post.  Interferon is not toxic, it is a natural chemical secreted by our bodies to fight infection.  There also has been some studies that indicate it is more effective in fighting some types of melanoma especially with the melanoma is ulcerated.  It has been also used to treat hepatitous and MS.

                                                                                                                  I strongly disagree with the post that oncologists are proscribing interferon and IL2 because they want to make money off of it.  I will tell you that my oncologist does NOT view me as a profit center.  Nor due I believe that drug companies are only offering it as treatment to make money.  Interferon along with surgery are the only treatment options currently available for stage 2/3.

                                                                                                                  I did interferon for a year ending in September.  I was very sick. It was the right decision for me, I am glad I did it.

                                                                                                                  MikeWI

                                                                                                                  stage 2c, currently NED

                                                                                                                  bcl
                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    A Surgical Oncologist Speaks Out on the Perils of Alternative Cancer Therapies

                                                                                                                    Feature Stories | Published 17 Aug 2012, 10:08 am | 50 Comments – 

                                                                                                                    Print this Page Print this Page |  

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    According to statistics from the Centers for Disease Control about 12.7 million people around the world will be diagnosed with cancer this year and about 7.6 million people will die from the disease. In the United States, cancer is the second leading cause of death and over 570,000 Americans will die of some type of cancer this year. Despite these staggering figures, overall death rates from cancer are actually on the decline since the 1990s. Researchers have attributed much of this downward trend to better treatments. But, while newer forms of treatment and more advanced versions of chemotherapy and radiation have enabled patients to battle the disease more effectively, some still turn to alternative therapies to treat their illness. Among the alternative therapies is the Gerson Therapy created by Max Gerson which you may have heard about on KPFK. The Gerson Therapy claims to be an effective way to fight cancer by consuming a vegetarian diet, large quantities of fresh juices, and administering a regimen of coffee enemas. Yet, research done by various cancer groups including the American Cancer Society, The National Cancer Institute and Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center have all concluded that the effectiveness of the Gerson therapy is highly doubtful.

                                                                                                                    GUEST: Dr. David Gorski, a surgical oncologist at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute at Wayne State University. He also serves as the American College of Surgeons Committee on Cancer Liaison Physician as well as an Associate Professor of Surgery and member of the faculty of the Graduate Program in Cancer Biology at Wayne State University.

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    http://allbleedingstops.blogspot.ca/2009/09/human-cost-of-woo.html

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    I saw one of the most disturbing things of my career recently — and that is really saying something.  

                                                                                                                    This was a young woman, barely out of her teens, who presented with a tumor in her distal femur, by the knee.  This was not a new diagnosis — it had first been noted in January or so, and diagnosed as a Primary B-Cell Lymphoma.   By now, the tumor was absolutely huge, and she came to the ER in agonizing pain.   Her physical exam was just amazing.  The poor thing's knee (or more precisely, the area just above the knee) was entirely consumed by this massive, hard, immobile mass about the size of a soccer ball.  She could not move the knee; it was frozen in a mid-flexed position.  She hadn't been able to walk for months.  The lower leg was swollen and red due to blood clots, and the worst of the pain she was having seemed due to compression of the nerves passing behind the knee.  It was like something you see out of the third world, or historic medical textbooks.  I have never seen its like before.

                                                                                                                    So we got her pain managed, of course, and I sat down to talk to her and her family.

                                                                                                                    What I learned was even more amazing.  The patient had been seen by the finest oncologists in the region upon diagnosis.  They had all recommended the standard treatment of a combined regimen of chemotherapy and radiation.  She had, however, steadfastly refused this treatment.  She preferred, she said, the "Gerson Protocol."  This is, she continued, "a way for the body to heal itself with a combination of detoxification and boosting the immune system."

                                                                                                                    In a less grave situation I might have laughed and asked "So how's that working for ya?"  As it was, the tears from her only partially-controlled pain took any humor out of the situation.  She was very frustrated that the Gerson therapy wasn't working yet, but she did not perceive this as a failure of the treatment.  Her theory was that the severity of her uncontrolled pain was keeping her immune system suppressed and preventing it from working.  If, she hoped, she could just get her pain under control, she would finally start to get better.

                                                                                                                    I spent a lot of time with this young lady.  Listening as well as explaining.  She was dead set against chemo, which to her mind was equated with the "toxins" which had caused her cancer in the first place.  She wrote off the oncologists as pushing chemo "because that's all they know how to do, and it never works."  She had, in fact, burnt all the bridges with the various oncologists who had treated her, and was now left with only a pain specialist and a primary care doctor trying to do what little they could for her. She was equally frustrated by doctors in general, who "won't do anything to help me."

                                                                                                                    I could see why she felt that way; when a patient refuses the only possible effective treatment, there is not really much we can do to help her.

                                                                                                                    I did what I could.  I talked to both her doctors, and I called a new oncologist.  The oncologist, a wonderful man, promised to make time to see her in his clinic, even fully forewarned of the "baggage" she would be bringing with her.  She was happy to receive the referral, though I warned her that the new oncologist would be recommending more-or-less standard treatments.  Ultimately, she went home and I was left to reflect on the futility of the situation and the absolute wickedness of the charlatans and hucksters out there who promote this sort of thinking.   From the late Dr Gerson, to his modern-day counterparts Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy.

                                                                                                                    Most woo is harmless — but that's because most woo is directed at chronic, ill-defined, or otherwise incurable conditions.  Think chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia.  Wave a magnet at somebody, get them to do a lot of enemas and go on a special diet, and you get to write a book and go on Oprah and collect a lot of money.  If the subjects of the "magical thinking medicine" think they are better from the intervention, then so much the better.

                                                                                                                    But the really pernicious thing about allowing fantasy medical theories and treatments into the mainstream is that when they gain enough credence among the masses, they will tend to be used in place of real medical treatments that work.  Like vaccines.  Even the anti-vaxxers have a limited and indirect harm — of the many thousands of children who go unvaccinated, only a very few get measles and even fewer die.  It's a real harm, but one which is easy to miss if you're not affected personally.  But when woo supplants real medicine against lethal diseases that actually have effective treatments, the harm is so much more severe and so apparent that it cannot be left unrecognized.  Because of the practitioners of "alternative" medical treatments who irresponsibly and dishonestly teach people to distrust medicine and embrace unscientific treatments, this young woman is enduring incalculable pain, and may well lose her life.

                                                                                                                    It's sad, and it's an outrage.

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    This was a young woman, barely out of her teens, who presented with a tumor in her distal femur, by the knee.  This was not a new diagnosis — it had first been noted in January or so, and diagnosed as a Primary B-Cell Lymphoma.   By now, the tumor was absolutely huge, and she came to the ER in agonizing pain.   Her physical exam was just amazing.  The poor thing's knee (or more precisely, the area just above the knee) was entirely consumed by this massive, hard, immobile mass about the size of a soccer ball.  She could not move the knee; it was frozen in a mid-flexed position.  She hadn't been able to walk for months.  The lower leg was swollen and red due to blood clots, and the worst of the pain she was having seemed due to compression of the nerves passing behind the knee.  It was like something you see out of the third world, or historic medical textbooks.  I have never seen its like before.

                                                                                                                    So we got her pain managed, of course, and I sat down to talk to her and her family.

                                                                                                                    What I learned was even more amazing.  The patient had been seen by the finest oncologists in the region upon diagnosis.  They had all recommended the standard treatment of a combined regimen of chemotherapy and radiation.  She had, however, steadfastly refused this treatment.  She preferred, she said, the "Gerson Protocol."  This is, she continued, "a way for the body to heal itself with a combination of detoxification and boosting the immune system."

                                                                                                                    In a less grave situation I might have laughed and asked "So how's that working for ya?"  As it was, the tears from her only partially-controlled pain took any humor out of the situation.  She was very frustrated that the Gerson therapy wasn't working yet, but she did not perceive this as a failure of the treatment.  Her theory was that the severity of her uncontrolled pain was keeping her immune system suppressed and preventing it from working.  If, she hoped, she could just get her pain under control, she would finally start to get better.

                                                                                                                    I spent a lot of time with this young lady.  Listening as well as explaining.  She was dead set against chemo, which to her mind was equated with the "toxins" which had caused her cancer in the first place.  She wrote off the oncologists as pushing chemo "because that's all they know how to do, and it never works."  She had, in fact, burnt all the bridges with the various oncologists who had treated her, and was now left with only a pain specialist and a primary care doctor trying to do what little they could for her. She was equally frustrated by doctors in general, who "won't do anything to help me."

                                                                                                                    I could see why she felt that way; when a patient refuses the only possible effective treatment, there is not really much we can do to help her.

                                                                                                                    I did what I could.  I talked to both her doctors, and I called a new oncologist.  The oncologist, a wonderful man, promised to make time to see her in his clinic, even fully forewarned of the "baggage" she would be bringing with her.  She was happy to receive the referral, though I warned her that the new oncologist would be recommending more-or-less standard treatments.  Ultimately, she went home and I was left to reflect on the futility of the situation and the absolute wickedness of the charlatans and hucksters out there who promote this sort of thinking.   From the late Dr Gerson, to his modern-day counterparts Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy.

                                                                                                                    Most woo is harmless — but that's because most woo is directed at chronic, ill-defined, or otherwise incurable conditions.  Think chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia.  Wave a magnet at somebody, get them to do a lot of enemas and go on a special diet, and you get to write a book and go on Oprah and collect a lot of money.  If the subjects of the "magical thinking medicine" think they are better from the intervention, then so much the better.

                                                                                                                    But the really pernicious thing about allowing fantasy medical theories and treatments into the mainstream is that when they gain enough credence among the masses, they will tend to be used in place of real medical treatments that work.  Like vaccines.  Even the anti-vaxxers have a limited and indirect harm — of the many thousands of children who go unvaccinated, only a very few get measles and even fewer die.  It's a real harm, but one which is easy to miss if you're not affected personally.  But when woo supplants real medicine against lethal diseases that actually have effective treatments, the harm is so much more severe and so apparent that it cannot be left unrecognized.  Because of the practitioners of "alternative" medical treatments who irresponsibly and dishonestly teach people to distrust medicine and embrace unscientific treatments, this young woman is enduring incalculable pain, and may well lose her life.

                                                                                                                    It's sad, and it's an outrage.

                                                                                                                    bcl
                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      A Surgical Oncologist Speaks Out on the Perils of Alternative Cancer Therapies

                                                                                                                      Feature Stories | Published 17 Aug 2012, 10:08 am | 50 Comments – 

                                                                                                                      Print this Page Print this Page |  

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      According to statistics from the Centers for Disease Control about 12.7 million people around the world will be diagnosed with cancer this year and about 7.6 million people will die from the disease. In the United States, cancer is the second leading cause of death and over 570,000 Americans will die of some type of cancer this year. Despite these staggering figures, overall death rates from cancer are actually on the decline since the 1990s. Researchers have attributed much of this downward trend to better treatments. But, while newer forms of treatment and more advanced versions of chemotherapy and radiation have enabled patients to battle the disease more effectively, some still turn to alternative therapies to treat their illness. Among the alternative therapies is the Gerson Therapy created by Max Gerson which you may have heard about on KPFK. The Gerson Therapy claims to be an effective way to fight cancer by consuming a vegetarian diet, large quantities of fresh juices, and administering a regimen of coffee enemas. Yet, research done by various cancer groups including the American Cancer Society, The National Cancer Institute and Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center have all concluded that the effectiveness of the Gerson therapy is highly doubtful.

                                                                                                                      GUEST: Dr. David Gorski, a surgical oncologist at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute at Wayne State University. He also serves as the American College of Surgeons Committee on Cancer Liaison Physician as well as an Associate Professor of Surgery and member of the faculty of the Graduate Program in Cancer Biology at Wayne State University.

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      http://allbleedingstops.blogspot.ca/2009/09/human-cost-of-woo.html

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      I saw one of the most disturbing things of my career recently — and that is really saying something.  

                                                                                                                      This was a young woman, barely out of her teens, who presented with a tumor in her distal femur, by the knee.  This was not a new diagnosis — it had first been noted in January or so, and diagnosed as a Primary B-Cell Lymphoma.   By now, the tumor was absolutely huge, and she came to the ER in agonizing pain.   Her physical exam was just amazing.  The poor thing's knee (or more precisely, the area just above the knee) was entirely consumed by this massive, hard, immobile mass about the size of a soccer ball.  She could not move the knee; it was frozen in a mid-flexed position.  She hadn't been able to walk for months.  The lower leg was swollen and red due to blood clots, and the worst of the pain she was having seemed due to compression of the nerves passing behind the knee.  It was like something you see out of the third world, or historic medical textbooks.  I have never seen its like before.

                                                                                                                      So we got her pain managed, of course, and I sat down to talk to her and her family.

                                                                                                                      What I learned was even more amazing.  The patient had been seen by the finest oncologists in the region upon diagnosis.  They had all recommended the standard treatment of a combined regimen of chemotherapy and radiation.  She had, however, steadfastly refused this treatment.  She preferred, she said, the "Gerson Protocol."  This is, she continued, "a way for the body to heal itself with a combination of detoxification and boosting the immune system."

                                                                                                                      In a less grave situation I might have laughed and asked "So how's that working for ya?"  As it was, the tears from her only partially-controlled pain took any humor out of the situation.  She was very frustrated that the Gerson therapy wasn't working yet, but she did not perceive this as a failure of the treatment.  Her theory was that the severity of her uncontrolled pain was keeping her immune system suppressed and preventing it from working.  If, she hoped, she could just get her pain under control, she would finally start to get better.

                                                                                                                      I spent a lot of time with this young lady.  Listening as well as explaining.  She was dead set against chemo, which to her mind was equated with the "toxins" which had caused her cancer in the first place.  She wrote off the oncologists as pushing chemo "because that's all they know how to do, and it never works."  She had, in fact, burnt all the bridges with the various oncologists who had treated her, and was now left with only a pain specialist and a primary care doctor trying to do what little they could for her. She was equally frustrated by doctors in general, who "won't do anything to help me."

                                                                                                                      I could see why she felt that way; when a patient refuses the only possible effective treatment, there is not really much we can do to help her.

                                                                                                                      I did what I could.  I talked to both her doctors, and I called a new oncologist.  The oncologist, a wonderful man, promised to make time to see her in his clinic, even fully forewarned of the "baggage" she would be bringing with her.  She was happy to receive the referral, though I warned her that the new oncologist would be recommending more-or-less standard treatments.  Ultimately, she went home and I was left to reflect on the futility of the situation and the absolute wickedness of the charlatans and hucksters out there who promote this sort of thinking.   From the late Dr Gerson, to his modern-day counterparts Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy.

                                                                                                                      Most woo is harmless — but that's because most woo is directed at chronic, ill-defined, or otherwise incurable conditions.  Think chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia.  Wave a magnet at somebody, get them to do a lot of enemas and go on a special diet, and you get to write a book and go on Oprah and collect a lot of money.  If the subjects of the "magical thinking medicine" think they are better from the intervention, then so much the better.

                                                                                                                      But the really pernicious thing about allowing fantasy medical theories and treatments into the mainstream is that when they gain enough credence among the masses, they will tend to be used in place of real medical treatments that work.  Like vaccines.  Even the anti-vaxxers have a limited and indirect harm — of the many thousands of children who go unvaccinated, only a very few get measles and even fewer die.  It's a real harm, but one which is easy to miss if you're not affected personally.  But when woo supplants real medicine against lethal diseases that actually have effective treatments, the harm is so much more severe and so apparent that it cannot be left unrecognized.  Because of the practitioners of "alternative" medical treatments who irresponsibly and dishonestly teach people to distrust medicine and embrace unscientific treatments, this young woman is enduring incalculable pain, and may well lose her life.

                                                                                                                      It's sad, and it's an outrage.

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      This was a young woman, barely out of her teens, who presented with a tumor in her distal femur, by the knee.  This was not a new diagnosis — it had first been noted in January or so, and diagnosed as a Primary B-Cell Lymphoma.   By now, the tumor was absolutely huge, and she came to the ER in agonizing pain.   Her physical exam was just amazing.  The poor thing's knee (or more precisely, the area just above the knee) was entirely consumed by this massive, hard, immobile mass about the size of a soccer ball.  She could not move the knee; it was frozen in a mid-flexed position.  She hadn't been able to walk for months.  The lower leg was swollen and red due to blood clots, and the worst of the pain she was having seemed due to compression of the nerves passing behind the knee.  It was like something you see out of the third world, or historic medical textbooks.  I have never seen its like before.

                                                                                                                      So we got her pain managed, of course, and I sat down to talk to her and her family.

                                                                                                                      What I learned was even more amazing.  The patient had been seen by the finest oncologists in the region upon diagnosis.  They had all recommended the standard treatment of a combined regimen of chemotherapy and radiation.  She had, however, steadfastly refused this treatment.  She preferred, she said, the "Gerson Protocol."  This is, she continued, "a way for the body to heal itself with a combination of detoxification and boosting the immune system."

                                                                                                                      In a less grave situation I might have laughed and asked "So how's that working for ya?"  As it was, the tears from her only partially-controlled pain took any humor out of the situation.  She was very frustrated that the Gerson therapy wasn't working yet, but she did not perceive this as a failure of the treatment.  Her theory was that the severity of her uncontrolled pain was keeping her immune system suppressed and preventing it from working.  If, she hoped, she could just get her pain under control, she would finally start to get better.

                                                                                                                      I spent a lot of time with this young lady.  Listening as well as explaining.  She was dead set against chemo, which to her mind was equated with the "toxins" which had caused her cancer in the first place.  She wrote off the oncologists as pushing chemo "because that's all they know how to do, and it never works."  She had, in fact, burnt all the bridges with the various oncologists who had treated her, and was now left with only a pain specialist and a primary care doctor trying to do what little they could for her. She was equally frustrated by doctors in general, who "won't do anything to help me."

                                                                                                                      I could see why she felt that way; when a patient refuses the only possible effective treatment, there is not really much we can do to help her.

                                                                                                                      I did what I could.  I talked to both her doctors, and I called a new oncologist.  The oncologist, a wonderful man, promised to make time to see her in his clinic, even fully forewarned of the "baggage" she would be bringing with her.  She was happy to receive the referral, though I warned her that the new oncologist would be recommending more-or-less standard treatments.  Ultimately, she went home and I was left to reflect on the futility of the situation and the absolute wickedness of the charlatans and hucksters out there who promote this sort of thinking.   From the late Dr Gerson, to his modern-day counterparts Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy.

                                                                                                                      Most woo is harmless — but that's because most woo is directed at chronic, ill-defined, or otherwise incurable conditions.  Think chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia.  Wave a magnet at somebody, get them to do a lot of enemas and go on a special diet, and you get to write a book and go on Oprah and collect a lot of money.  If the subjects of the "magical thinking medicine" think they are better from the intervention, then so much the better.

                                                                                                                      But the really pernicious thing about allowing fantasy medical theories and treatments into the mainstream is that when they gain enough credence among the masses, they will tend to be used in place of real medical treatments that work.  Like vaccines.  Even the anti-vaxxers have a limited and indirect harm — of the many thousands of children who go unvaccinated, only a very few get measles and even fewer die.  It's a real harm, but one which is easy to miss if you're not affected personally.  But when woo supplants real medicine against lethal diseases that actually have effective treatments, the harm is so much more severe and so apparent that it cannot be left unrecognized.  Because of the practitioners of "alternative" medical treatments who irresponsibly and dishonestly teach people to distrust medicine and embrace unscientific treatments, this young woman is enduring incalculable pain, and may well lose her life.

                                                                                                                      It's sad, and it's an outrage.

                                                                                                                      bcl
                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        A Surgical Oncologist Speaks Out on the Perils of Alternative Cancer Therapies

                                                                                                                        Feature Stories | Published 17 Aug 2012, 10:08 am | 50 Comments – 

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                                                                                                                        According to statistics from the Centers for Disease Control about 12.7 million people around the world will be diagnosed with cancer this year and about 7.6 million people will die from the disease. In the United States, cancer is the second leading cause of death and over 570,000 Americans will die of some type of cancer this year. Despite these staggering figures, overall death rates from cancer are actually on the decline since the 1990s. Researchers have attributed much of this downward trend to better treatments. But, while newer forms of treatment and more advanced versions of chemotherapy and radiation have enabled patients to battle the disease more effectively, some still turn to alternative therapies to treat their illness. Among the alternative therapies is the Gerson Therapy created by Max Gerson which you may have heard about on KPFK. The Gerson Therapy claims to be an effective way to fight cancer by consuming a vegetarian diet, large quantities of fresh juices, and administering a regimen of coffee enemas. Yet, research done by various cancer groups including the American Cancer Society, The National Cancer Institute and Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center have all concluded that the effectiveness of the Gerson therapy is highly doubtful.

                                                                                                                        GUEST: Dr. David Gorski, a surgical oncologist at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute at Wayne State University. He also serves as the American College of Surgeons Committee on Cancer Liaison Physician as well as an Associate Professor of Surgery and member of the faculty of the Graduate Program in Cancer Biology at Wayne State University.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        http://allbleedingstops.blogspot.ca/2009/09/human-cost-of-woo.html

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        I saw one of the most disturbing things of my career recently — and that is really saying something.  

                                                                                                                        This was a young woman, barely out of her teens, who presented with a tumor in her distal femur, by the knee.  This was not a new diagnosis — it had first been noted in January or so, and diagnosed as a Primary B-Cell Lymphoma.   By now, the tumor was absolutely huge, and she came to the ER in agonizing pain.   Her physical exam was just amazing.  The poor thing's knee (or more precisely, the area just above the knee) was entirely consumed by this massive, hard, immobile mass about the size of a soccer ball.  She could not move the knee; it was frozen in a mid-flexed position.  She hadn't been able to walk for months.  The lower leg was swollen and red due to blood clots, and the worst of the pain she was having seemed due to compression of the nerves passing behind the knee.  It was like something you see out of the third world, or historic medical textbooks.  I have never seen its like before.

                                                                                                                        So we got her pain managed, of course, and I sat down to talk to her and her family.

                                                                                                                        What I learned was even more amazing.  The patient had been seen by the finest oncologists in the region upon diagnosis.  They had all recommended the standard treatment of a combined regimen of chemotherapy and radiation.  She had, however, steadfastly refused this treatment.  She preferred, she said, the "Gerson Protocol."  This is, she continued, "a way for the body to heal itself with a combination of detoxification and boosting the immune system."

                                                                                                                        In a less grave situation I might have laughed and asked "So how's that working for ya?"  As it was, the tears from her only partially-controlled pain took any humor out of the situation.  She was very frustrated that the Gerson therapy wasn't working yet, but she did not perceive this as a failure of the treatment.  Her theory was that the severity of her uncontrolled pain was keeping her immune system suppressed and preventing it from working.  If, she hoped, she could just get her pain under control, she would finally start to get better.

                                                                                                                        I spent a lot of time with this young lady.  Listening as well as explaining.  She was dead set against chemo, which to her mind was equated with the "toxins" which had caused her cancer in the first place.  She wrote off the oncologists as pushing chemo "because that's all they know how to do, and it never works."  She had, in fact, burnt all the bridges with the various oncologists who had treated her, and was now left with only a pain specialist and a primary care doctor trying to do what little they could for her. She was equally frustrated by doctors in general, who "won't do anything to help me."

                                                                                                                        I could see why she felt that way; when a patient refuses the only possible effective treatment, there is not really much we can do to help her.

                                                                                                                        I did what I could.  I talked to both her doctors, and I called a new oncologist.  The oncologist, a wonderful man, promised to make time to see her in his clinic, even fully forewarned of the "baggage" she would be bringing with her.  She was happy to receive the referral, though I warned her that the new oncologist would be recommending more-or-less standard treatments.  Ultimately, she went home and I was left to reflect on the futility of the situation and the absolute wickedness of the charlatans and hucksters out there who promote this sort of thinking.   From the late Dr Gerson, to his modern-day counterparts Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy.

                                                                                                                        Most woo is harmless — but that's because most woo is directed at chronic, ill-defined, or otherwise incurable conditions.  Think chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia.  Wave a magnet at somebody, get them to do a lot of enemas and go on a special diet, and you get to write a book and go on Oprah and collect a lot of money.  If the subjects of the "magical thinking medicine" think they are better from the intervention, then so much the better.

                                                                                                                        But the really pernicious thing about allowing fantasy medical theories and treatments into the mainstream is that when they gain enough credence among the masses, they will tend to be used in place of real medical treatments that work.  Like vaccines.  Even the anti-vaxxers have a limited and indirect harm — of the many thousands of children who go unvaccinated, only a very few get measles and even fewer die.  It's a real harm, but one which is easy to miss if you're not affected personally.  But when woo supplants real medicine against lethal diseases that actually have effective treatments, the harm is so much more severe and so apparent that it cannot be left unrecognized.  Because of the practitioners of "alternative" medical treatments who irresponsibly and dishonestly teach people to distrust medicine and embrace unscientific treatments, this young woman is enduring incalculable pain, and may well lose her life.

                                                                                                                        It's sad, and it's an outrage.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        This was a young woman, barely out of her teens, who presented with a tumor in her distal femur, by the knee.  This was not a new diagnosis — it had first been noted in January or so, and diagnosed as a Primary B-Cell Lymphoma.   By now, the tumor was absolutely huge, and she came to the ER in agonizing pain.   Her physical exam was just amazing.  The poor thing's knee (or more precisely, the area just above the knee) was entirely consumed by this massive, hard, immobile mass about the size of a soccer ball.  She could not move the knee; it was frozen in a mid-flexed position.  She hadn't been able to walk for months.  The lower leg was swollen and red due to blood clots, and the worst of the pain she was having seemed due to compression of the nerves passing behind the knee.  It was like something you see out of the third world, or historic medical textbooks.  I have never seen its like before.

                                                                                                                        So we got her pain managed, of course, and I sat down to talk to her and her family.

                                                                                                                        What I learned was even more amazing.  The patient had been seen by the finest oncologists in the region upon diagnosis.  They had all recommended the standard treatment of a combined regimen of chemotherapy and radiation.  She had, however, steadfastly refused this treatment.  She preferred, she said, the "Gerson Protocol."  This is, she continued, "a way for the body to heal itself with a combination of detoxification and boosting the immune system."

                                                                                                                        In a less grave situation I might have laughed and asked "So how's that working for ya?"  As it was, the tears from her only partially-controlled pain took any humor out of the situation.  She was very frustrated that the Gerson therapy wasn't working yet, but she did not perceive this as a failure of the treatment.  Her theory was that the severity of her uncontrolled pain was keeping her immune system suppressed and preventing it from working.  If, she hoped, she could just get her pain under control, she would finally start to get better.

                                                                                                                        I spent a lot of time with this young lady.  Listening as well as explaining.  She was dead set against chemo, which to her mind was equated with the "toxins" which had caused her cancer in the first place.  She wrote off the oncologists as pushing chemo "because that's all they know how to do, and it never works."  She had, in fact, burnt all the bridges with the various oncologists who had treated her, and was now left with only a pain specialist and a primary care doctor trying to do what little they could for her. She was equally frustrated by doctors in general, who "won't do anything to help me."

                                                                                                                        I could see why she felt that way; when a patient refuses the only possible effective treatment, there is not really much we can do to help her.

                                                                                                                        I did what I could.  I talked to both her doctors, and I called a new oncologist.  The oncologist, a wonderful man, promised to make time to see her in his clinic, even fully forewarned of the "baggage" she would be bringing with her.  She was happy to receive the referral, though I warned her that the new oncologist would be recommending more-or-less standard treatments.  Ultimately, she went home and I was left to reflect on the futility of the situation and the absolute wickedness of the charlatans and hucksters out there who promote this sort of thinking.   From the late Dr Gerson, to his modern-day counterparts Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy.

                                                                                                                        Most woo is harmless — but that's because most woo is directed at chronic, ill-defined, or otherwise incurable conditions.  Think chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia.  Wave a magnet at somebody, get them to do a lot of enemas and go on a special diet, and you get to write a book and go on Oprah and collect a lot of money.  If the subjects of the "magical thinking medicine" think they are better from the intervention, then so much the better.

                                                                                                                        But the really pernicious thing about allowing fantasy medical theories and treatments into the mainstream is that when they gain enough credence among the masses, they will tend to be used in place of real medical treatments that work.  Like vaccines.  Even the anti-vaxxers have a limited and indirect harm — of the many thousands of children who go unvaccinated, only a very few get measles and even fewer die.  It's a real harm, but one which is easy to miss if you're not affected personally.  But when woo supplants real medicine against lethal diseases that actually have effective treatments, the harm is so much more severe and so apparent that it cannot be left unrecognized.  Because of the practitioners of "alternative" medical treatments who irresponsibly and dishonestly teach people to distrust medicine and embrace unscientific treatments, this young woman is enduring incalculable pain, and may well lose her life.

                                                                                                                        It's sad, and it's an outrage.

                                                                                                                          Gene_S
                                                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                                                            RE: It's sad, and it's an outrage.

                                                                                                                            The only outrage here is the number of deceased warriors (who believed in the allopathic medical system) that I have read about on this forum and the current patients that will continue to die following the current medical protocols' that just won't work to cure their melanoma.

                                                                                                                            Gene_S
                                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                                              RE: It's sad, and it's an outrage.

                                                                                                                              The only outrage here is the number of deceased warriors (who believed in the allopathic medical system) that I have read about on this forum and the current patients that will continue to die following the current medical protocols' that just won't work to cure their melanoma.

                                                                                                                              Gene_S
                                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                                RE: It's sad, and it's an outrage.

                                                                                                                                The only outrage here is the number of deceased warriors (who believed in the allopathic medical system) that I have read about on this forum and the current patients that will continue to die following the current medical protocols' that just won't work to cure their melanoma.

                                                                                                                                bcl
                                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  It is also an outrage that the SURVIVORS on this board are subjected to sales pitch after sales pitch for a treatment that has not lived up to its hype.  

                                                                                                                                  The irony of course is that the gerson promoter is on conventional treatment. Coffee enemas be damned.

                                                                                                                                  bcl
                                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    It is also an outrage that the SURVIVORS on this board are subjected to sales pitch after sales pitch for a treatment that has not lived up to its hype.  

                                                                                                                                    The irony of course is that the gerson promoter is on conventional treatment. Coffee enemas be damned.

                                                                                                                                    bcl
                                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      It is also an outrage that the SURVIVORS on this board are subjected to sales pitch after sales pitch for a treatment that has not lived up to its hype.  

                                                                                                                                      The irony of course is that the gerson promoter is on conventional treatment. Coffee enemas be damned.

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