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disturbed..

Forums Cutaneous Melanoma Community disturbed..

  • Post
    bcl
    Participant

    that's me, sorry this is not a fun read. I have been going head to head with the tanning industry in an effort to ban under nineteens from indoor tanning and find it very hard to stomach. I am doing this, not because I believe tanning is solely responsible for skin cancer, ( genome research is telling us it is involved though)  but because it will make publicly funded education regarding skin changes more meaningful once indoor tanning is restricted to adults.

    that's me, sorry this is not a fun read. I have been going head to head with the tanning industry in an effort to ban under nineteens from indoor tanning and find it very hard to stomach. I am doing this, not because I believe tanning is solely responsible for skin cancer, ( genome research is telling us it is involved though)  but because it will make publicly funded education regarding skin changes more meaningful once indoor tanning is restricted to adults.

    When this was brought forward (in July) the industry roared with laughter at the low mel numbers, and months later I find I can't get that sound out of my head. At the first public hearing in Sept. young mpip patient names and stages were read out by students.. the industry scoffed at the data and said they had no part in those cancers. (It would appear they want to be like the sun for Vit D purposes but not like the sun when it comes to responsibility.)   On their blogs they talk about mailing their message to patients who speak out about their cancer dx.. nothing is off limits.

    This fight has been compared to fighting big tobacco.. so I should expect to be offended – I think I just needed to acknowledge it here so I can put it in perspective.  I know they are only trying to preserve access to their clients, but as a parent I am incensed children are not protected and feel I must change this for (all of)  them.

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  • Replies
      LV
      Participant

      In the back of my mind, I'm hearing the theme music to Underdog!

      But Linda, go get 'em! This is important work that really means something. When any industry puts profit over the general welfare, especially the welfare of kids, it needs calling attention to. I can't tell you how proud I am of you – I know the public speaking doesn't come easy. Keep at it, and vent any time. I'm sure you'll have lots of support here.

      He who laughs last …

       

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      LV
      Participant

      In the back of my mind, I'm hearing the theme music to Underdog!

      But Linda, go get 'em! This is important work that really means something. When any industry puts profit over the general welfare, especially the welfare of kids, it needs calling attention to. I can't tell you how proud I am of you – I know the public speaking doesn't come easy. Keep at it, and vent any time. I'm sure you'll have lots of support here.

      He who laughs last …

       

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        bcl
        Participant

        Thanks Laura, you make me feel proud:)

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        bcl
        Participant

        Thanks Laura, you make me feel proud:)

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      Bonnie Lea
      Participant

      Dear Linda

      I for one will never fully understand our need to be 'bronze"  how many years I used to look at family and friends, and wonder this, yet I just turned into a big fat freckle, and always felt alienated when in a group of girls (from the mid 60;s) all dressed up wearing white, and pink and looking drop dead gorgeous in my eyes.  But I never wished ever to hang around suntanning hours away of my life, and maybe in the great scheme of life protection I felt it was not good for me.

      I hate seeing tanning parlours next door to say a place where I go for lovely pedicure etc.  I stopped going to this one place and I told them in nice Bonnie words.  They just thanked me for my past business, but said the tanning place was part and parcel of their 'business'  I did not know this.  But we found another place where there is no such thing next door, or in the same plaza.

      I admire you for stepping up to the mic and stating the words.  I get sick when I see older women, all wrinkly and prune like and bronze, wearing gold and looking like hmmmm.   Therre I sit…pale and scarry.  (but only on my body)  their advert for sun tan / phoney tan is on their faces.

      Out of my whole family, who consisted of Mother, sister, friends of sister, (elder) friends of mine, I am the only one who developed Mel.  those same people STILL do not understand.  And STILL go to the tanning place, (my neighbour and her TWO CHILDREN  ages now 21 and 14.  (do not know about the 14 year old)  but she spent all summer days this past summer laying about the swmming pool. 

      SIGH

      keep up and keep on it, and if you even save ONE life, you will have done well.

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      Bonnie Lea
      Participant

      Dear Linda

      I for one will never fully understand our need to be 'bronze"  how many years I used to look at family and friends, and wonder this, yet I just turned into a big fat freckle, and always felt alienated when in a group of girls (from the mid 60;s) all dressed up wearing white, and pink and looking drop dead gorgeous in my eyes.  But I never wished ever to hang around suntanning hours away of my life, and maybe in the great scheme of life protection I felt it was not good for me.

      I hate seeing tanning parlours next door to say a place where I go for lovely pedicure etc.  I stopped going to this one place and I told them in nice Bonnie words.  They just thanked me for my past business, but said the tanning place was part and parcel of their 'business'  I did not know this.  But we found another place where there is no such thing next door, or in the same plaza.

      I admire you for stepping up to the mic and stating the words.  I get sick when I see older women, all wrinkly and prune like and bronze, wearing gold and looking like hmmmm.   Therre I sit…pale and scarry.  (but only on my body)  their advert for sun tan / phoney tan is on their faces.

      Out of my whole family, who consisted of Mother, sister, friends of sister, (elder) friends of mine, I am the only one who developed Mel.  those same people STILL do not understand.  And STILL go to the tanning place, (my neighbour and her TWO CHILDREN  ages now 21 and 14.  (do not know about the 14 year old)  but she spent all summer days this past summer laying about the swmming pool. 

      SIGH

      keep up and keep on it, and if you even save ONE life, you will have done well.

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        Jerry from Cape Cod
        Participant

        The problem is that many of those sun worshipers will not be affected until they are in their 50's or 60's.

        The myths about Vit D being "better" from the sun are just that.  Vit D from any source is still Vit D and does work just as well. NO SUN NEEDED.

        Keep up the fight we may be underdogs and we are fighting culture and big money.

        Jerry from Cape Cod

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        bcl
        Participant

        Thanks Jerry, the latency period and the safety aspects of bottled D are being emphasized by the docs.  .. I am most impressed with the ones who show up. Turns out,  I'm a bit of a pit bull underdog, just feeling frustrated the big dogs keep moving around and I can't keep them in my sights ( bloody cabinet shuffle – but I'm sniffing around for the silver lining:)   cheers linda

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        bcl
        Participant

        Thanks Jerry, the latency period and the safety aspects of bottled D are being emphasized by the docs.  .. I am most impressed with the ones who show up. Turns out,  I'm a bit of a pit bull underdog, just feeling frustrated the big dogs keep moving around and I can't keep them in my sights ( bloody cabinet shuffle – but I'm sniffing around for the silver lining:)   cheers linda

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        Jerry from Cape Cod
        Participant

        The problem is that many of those sun worshipers will not be affected until they are in their 50's or 60's.

        The myths about Vit D being "better" from the sun are just that.  Vit D from any source is still Vit D and does work just as well. NO SUN NEEDED.

        Keep up the fight we may be underdogs and we are fighting culture and big money.

        Jerry from Cape Cod

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        bcl
        Participant

        Thanks Bonnie, I think I have resented society's pressure to fit in since I was a child.. I still remember refusing to follow my whole school  (all girls, uniforms flapping in the wind) as they raced down to the train station to see the Bay City Rollers.. those silly Scottish boys with the short plaid pants. Since I was painfully shy it still amazes me I was able to do this.

        When I left Ireland for Canada in the mid 70s my pale skin seemed to shock everyone and I was beaten up on more than one occasion for looking different. ( What fun.. just glad it was before curbing became the whole rage..and crowds moved back and only sporadically kicked the victim.)   Perhaps those experiences made me even more determined to overcome my stage fright –  by the fourth public hearing I was surprised to find myself shaking not because I was scared to speak but because I could hardly wait to speak. I even caught myself improvising and had to stop from saying too much lol   

        It galls me that I protected my children from burning for years only to have them fall for a sales pitch at a salon. They quit after my dx but the damage is done.  At the last hearing, our chief medical health officer said his biggest regret was that  he did not succeed when he tried this ban some years ago, mine too.

        The good news is I hear our experiences this time around are giving inspiration to at least one other major Canadian city  YEAAAAA!

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        LV
        Participant

        You know, I've taken to reading the little Canadian news section in our newspaper very carefully lately. I know that any day now I'm going to see mention of this, and I'll know it's you!

        Sic 'em!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcjOi_3H7gw

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        bcl
        Participant

        LOL   – an American reading Canadian news    …now I know I'm on to something big ;)

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        bcl
        Participant

        LOL   – an American reading Canadian news    …now I know I'm on to something big ;)

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        LV
        Participant

        You know, I've taken to reading the little Canadian news section in our newspaper very carefully lately. I know that any day now I'm going to see mention of this, and I'll know it's you!

        Sic 'em!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcjOi_3H7gw

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        bcl
        Participant

        Thanks Bonnie, I think I have resented society's pressure to fit in since I was a child.. I still remember refusing to follow my whole school  (all girls, uniforms flapping in the wind) as they raced down to the train station to see the Bay City Rollers.. those silly Scottish boys with the short plaid pants. Since I was painfully shy it still amazes me I was able to do this.

        When I left Ireland for Canada in the mid 70s my pale skin seemed to shock everyone and I was beaten up on more than one occasion for looking different. ( What fun.. just glad it was before curbing became the whole rage..and crowds moved back and only sporadically kicked the victim.)   Perhaps those experiences made me even more determined to overcome my stage fright –  by the fourth public hearing I was surprised to find myself shaking not because I was scared to speak but because I could hardly wait to speak. I even caught myself improvising and had to stop from saying too much lol   

        It galls me that I protected my children from burning for years only to have them fall for a sales pitch at a salon. They quit after my dx but the damage is done.  At the last hearing, our chief medical health officer said his biggest regret was that  he did not succeed when he tried this ban some years ago, mine too.

        The good news is I hear our experiences this time around are giving inspiration to at least one other major Canadian city  YEAAAAA!

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        TinaR
        Participant

        Bonnie, I'm one who likes bronze skin- not because others do and not the leather you see on the older, excessive sun worshipers. I am hoping that research into supplements to safely tan  skin comes along. Despite  the pale is beautiful campaign, I doubt a large majority of adults who want a tan will turn around—even with all I know, I still would like to be tan again. Not everyone with dark skin will look like an alligator bag when they're old . Let's face it…at 80-90+  we will all be wrinkly and those  crocs with an entire lifetime behind them  probably enjoyed the hell out of the time they spent acquiring such a look. I do not enjoy the summer or the outdoors — haven't for the last 8 years.  I still wish I'd inherited my father's Mediterranean skin-tone rather than my mother's pale, Russian blond complexion, then, even without sun I'd be tan.

        I know it's unpopular on a Melanoma board, but even with cancer I haven't changed my view of aesthetics—I find my daughter's naturally dark skin wearing the same clothing or jewelry looks so much better than my own pasty parts. I've made changes to accommodate my new skin color–I'm resentful…silver vs gold, covering up my legs/arms all summer, not visiting the beach, changing my hair color to accommodate complexion clash, wearing clothing in colors that are not my favorite to de-emphasize the paleness, sweating in long sleeves, actually using sunscreen when I must even though I know the chemicals are not good for me, etc. I curse MY genes/coloring not the sun.

          Pale can be beautiful …on the very young… and celebrities who are airbrushed in photos and complexion blushed , primped by stylists, covered with expensive clothing and professionally applied cosmetics.  Personal trainers, expensive laser treatments and surgical intervention can do a lot to make pale skin look similarly attractive to the tan of your mid years- otherwise, not so much.  Five or more generations will be gone before the Victorian parasol becomes a must-have fashion accessory. The discomfort, annoyance and even the safety factor of sun protection works against the campaign…hats are uncomfortable for women, ruins their hair, getting a tan vs. applying sticky chemicals to your skin seems counter-intuitive when advocating health and safety. Covering up and avoiding the sun for a large chunk of the day goes against everyone's idea of freedom/choice. It's an uphill battle for the adult population..but it's fantastic that people like Linda are committed to protecting children and working where they will make a difference. 
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        LV
        Participant

        You know that our ideas of beauty change with the times, and advertising! If advertisering media begin planting the idea of pale skin as beautiful, we will eventually follow, just as  we followed into thinking smoking cigarettes and drinking was the epitome of coolness. So while you're right about the adults being set in their ideas of beauty, it can change, especially if we all stop reinforcing the idea that tan is better. 'Beauty' is such a subjective thing.

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        TinaR
        Participant

        A lot more than tan vs. pale has to change regarding standards of beauty/ subjective beauty. It  is very plain to see the difference in tan skin vs. pale skin in regards to skin imperfections…whether it's spider veins, cellulitte, pores, size/fat , lack of muscle tone or uneven coloring. Tan covers/improves a lot of these and pale skin highlights all of them.Not surprising  the time period when pale was popular also had women covered in hats, long skirts,sleeves, gloves and wearing bathing costumes covering from the neck to wrist to ankle. Once the skirt hem raised and sleeves came off…tblob cover began. 

        We're going to have to learn to embrace extreme Victorian modesty  or  value and promote chubbiness,  cellulitte, red/purple veins, large pores, flab and blotchy skin before *tan as pretty* is no longer in effect. That is going to be a hard sell for the media :) Plunging necklines, halters, mini skirts, tank tops, shorts, camisoles, bikinis, bare arms — all gone except for those who will be thought of as "so ugly" with their naturally dark , toned, smooth, glistening skin :)  I can't wait to see THAT Ad campaign!!

        I'm already dressing like a nun in the sun so a change to burkas are best would be swell for me- I'll finally look like everyone else again! I definitely agree that kids should not be allowed in tanning beds. Everyone over the age 21 have to right to burn themselves to a crisp, drink unti they puke or  smoke until their lungs turn black ( as long as they keep the smoke inside their own bodies for the rights of those who choose not to turn their lungs black ) … the beauty of America.

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        TinaR
        Participant

        A lot more than tan vs. pale has to change regarding standards of beauty/ subjective beauty. It  is very plain to see the difference in tan skin vs. pale skin in regards to skin imperfections…whether it's spider veins, cellulitte, pores, size/fat , lack of muscle tone or uneven coloring. Tan covers/improves a lot of these and pale skin highlights all of them.Not surprising  the time period when pale was popular also had women covered in hats, long skirts,sleeves, gloves and wearing bathing costumes covering from the neck to wrist to ankle. Once the skirt hem raised and sleeves came off…tblob cover began. 

        We're going to have to learn to embrace extreme Victorian modesty  or  value and promote chubbiness,  cellulitte, red/purple veins, large pores, flab and blotchy skin before *tan as pretty* is no longer in effect. That is going to be a hard sell for the media :) Plunging necklines, halters, mini skirts, tank tops, shorts, camisoles, bikinis, bare arms — all gone except for those who will be thought of as "so ugly" with their naturally dark , toned, smooth, glistening skin :)  I can't wait to see THAT Ad campaign!!

        I'm already dressing like a nun in the sun so a change to burkas are best would be swell for me- I'll finally look like everyone else again! I definitely agree that kids should not be allowed in tanning beds. Everyone over the age 21 have to right to burn themselves to a crisp, drink unti they puke or  smoke until their lungs turn black ( as long as they keep the smoke inside their own bodies for the rights of those who choose not to turn their lungs black ) … the beauty of America.

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        LV
        Participant

        You know that our ideas of beauty change with the times, and advertising! If advertisering media begin planting the idea of pale skin as beautiful, we will eventually follow, just as  we followed into thinking smoking cigarettes and drinking was the epitome of coolness. So while you're right about the adults being set in their ideas of beauty, it can change, especially if we all stop reinforcing the idea that tan is better. 'Beauty' is such a subjective thing.

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        bcl
        Participant

        R.. sorry to come back to this so late.  I wanted to say I understand how you feel about tanned skin, I was raised by a mother (skin type 2) who ironed outside in a halter top in semifrigid sunshine just to get a bit of colour. My dad (skin type 3 or 4) only had to play one round of golf and everybody raved about how healthy he looked. In Ireland the majority of the population are skin type ones so at least I looked the same as my classmates.  (I read now that 40% of the residents don't know they're ones and skin cancer is rampant.)   The real insecurities set in when I arrived in sunny North America, then I really felt like raw chicken. Oh how I craved a tan ( if tanning beds have been more prevalent I would have fallen for the safely sales pitch in a heart beat).  A few years later I married a dark skinned french guy  (still married to him) who told me frequently I'd tan, if only I let myself. None of these dear people intended to make me feel inferior, but they did. Fortunately because of a basic desire to avoid pain I resisted and stayed out of the sun. My one tip of the hat to summer was wearing short sleeved tops -so I was saddened, but not really that surprised when a mole on my upper arm was dx with mel.

        Ok, I'm getting to the point now, and that is beautiful pale skin really is easy, so long as one does not spend years soaking up the sun before going pale. I see elderly women all the time with smooth peach-skin cheeks and when I compliment them they tell me to keep protecting my face.. it's that simple. ( And that obvious.) They're not out spending money on laser treatments, they don't have to. So while I'm still not delighted to be pale, as I age, I have to admit it's growing on me. ( I wonder if Edward is helping too and think if I were younger I'd like the look even more.) 

        And I take encouragement from the geneticists who believe that soon they will know why it is that some of us are more affected by UV than others. Hopefully the next step will be figuring out how to turn the damn switch off!

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        bcl
        Participant

        R.. sorry to come back to this so late.  I wanted to say I understand how you feel about tanned skin, I was raised by a mother (skin type 2) who ironed outside in a halter top in semifrigid sunshine just to get a bit of colour. My dad (skin type 3 or 4) only had to play one round of golf and everybody raved about how healthy he looked. In Ireland the majority of the population are skin type ones so at least I looked the same as my classmates.  (I read now that 40% of the residents don't know they're ones and skin cancer is rampant.)   The real insecurities set in when I arrived in sunny North America, then I really felt like raw chicken. Oh how I craved a tan ( if tanning beds have been more prevalent I would have fallen for the safely sales pitch in a heart beat).  A few years later I married a dark skinned french guy  (still married to him) who told me frequently I'd tan, if only I let myself. None of these dear people intended to make me feel inferior, but they did. Fortunately because of a basic desire to avoid pain I resisted and stayed out of the sun. My one tip of the hat to summer was wearing short sleeved tops -so I was saddened, but not really that surprised when a mole on my upper arm was dx with mel.

        Ok, I'm getting to the point now, and that is beautiful pale skin really is easy, so long as one does not spend years soaking up the sun before going pale. I see elderly women all the time with smooth peach-skin cheeks and when I compliment them they tell me to keep protecting my face.. it's that simple. ( And that obvious.) They're not out spending money on laser treatments, they don't have to. So while I'm still not delighted to be pale, as I age, I have to admit it's growing on me. ( I wonder if Edward is helping too and think if I were younger I'd like the look even more.) 

        And I take encouragement from the geneticists who believe that soon they will know why it is that some of us are more affected by UV than others. Hopefully the next step will be figuring out how to turn the damn switch off!

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        TinaR
        Participant

        Bonnie, I'm one who likes bronze skin- not because others do and not the leather you see on the older, excessive sun worshipers. I am hoping that research into supplements to safely tan  skin comes along. Despite  the pale is beautiful campaign, I doubt a large majority of adults who want a tan will turn around—even with all I know, I still would like to be tan again. Not everyone with dark skin will look like an alligator bag when they're old . Let's face it…at 80-90+  we will all be wrinkly and those  crocs with an entire lifetime behind them  probably enjoyed the hell out of the time they spent acquiring such a look. I do not enjoy the summer or the outdoors — haven't for the last 8 years.  I still wish I'd inherited my father's Mediterranean skin-tone rather than my mother's pale, Russian blond complexion, then, even without sun I'd be tan.

        I know it's unpopular on a Melanoma board, but even with cancer I haven't changed my view of aesthetics—I find my daughter's naturally dark skin wearing the same clothing or jewelry looks so much better than my own pasty parts. I've made changes to accommodate my new skin color–I'm resentful…silver vs gold, covering up my legs/arms all summer, not visiting the beach, changing my hair color to accommodate complexion clash, wearing clothing in colors that are not my favorite to de-emphasize the paleness, sweating in long sleeves, actually using sunscreen when I must even though I know the chemicals are not good for me, etc. I curse MY genes/coloring not the sun.

          Pale can be beautiful …on the very young… and celebrities who are airbrushed in photos and complexion blushed , primped by stylists, covered with expensive clothing and professionally applied cosmetics.  Personal trainers, expensive laser treatments and surgical intervention can do a lot to make pale skin look similarly attractive to the tan of your mid years- otherwise, not so much.  Five or more generations will be gone before the Victorian parasol becomes a must-have fashion accessory. The discomfort, annoyance and even the safety factor of sun protection works against the campaign…hats are uncomfortable for women, ruins their hair, getting a tan vs. applying sticky chemicals to your skin seems counter-intuitive when advocating health and safety. Covering up and avoiding the sun for a large chunk of the day goes against everyone's idea of freedom/choice. It's an uphill battle for the adult population..but it's fantastic that people like Linda are committed to protecting children and working where they will make a difference. 
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      TinaR
      Participant
      Good work and I hope that you can make this happen for minors. As Bonnie said…if you save even one life it will be a success.  I think you will eventually be successful, Linda.  A legal ban is the only way to stop all kids from machine tanning. Education about Melanoma or wrinkles works for some…but so many at this age value their present appearance over something that might happen next week, next year or twenty years- or even something that has happened in their family!  You're right when you say it's  the same with smoking– so you are doing good work and hopefully the government will step in to protect children.
       
       It's an uphill battle for the adult population…it's fantastic you are directing your efforts where you WILL make a difference! 
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      TinaR
      Participant
      Good work and I hope that you can make this happen for minors. As Bonnie said…if you save even one life it will be a success.  I think you will eventually be successful, Linda.  A legal ban is the only way to stop all kids from machine tanning. Education about Melanoma or wrinkles works for some…but so many at this age value their present appearance over something that might happen next week, next year or twenty years- or even something that has happened in their family!  You're right when you say it's  the same with smoking– so you are doing good work and hopefully the government will step in to protect children.
       
       It's an uphill battle for the adult population…it's fantastic you are directing your efforts where you WILL make a difference! 
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      DonW
      Participant

      Just an opportunity for me to repost my favorite tanning-industry related item from a local student newspaper a few years back. Gotta like the "student sampler"!

       

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      DonW
      Participant

      Just an opportunity for me to repost my favorite tanning-industry related item from a local student newspaper a few years back. Gotta like the "student sampler"!

       

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      Donna
      Participant

      Linda, I have been "meeting" many of these delightful indoor tanning industry people myself lately. Let them rant long enough and they show off their single digit IQs! They like to travel in packs, and when they can't get you flustered, they retreat! Last week I was told that Jaime (my daughter who died of melanoma at age 29) never existed and that I had made it all up … while at the same time they were blaming me for her death and dissecting her medical history (or rather what they think was her medical history). And then I get the ones who are positive that I am being paid by a cosmetic company or the American Academy of Dermatology. You are right … nothing is off limits for them. And hopefully others who are listening or reading can figure out what is true and what is not. Keep up the good work and keep speaking out!!!

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      Donna
      Participant

      Linda, I have been "meeting" many of these delightful indoor tanning industry people myself lately. Let them rant long enough and they show off their single digit IQs! They like to travel in packs, and when they can't get you flustered, they retreat! Last week I was told that Jaime (my daughter who died of melanoma at age 29) never existed and that I had made it all up … while at the same time they were blaming me for her death and dissecting her medical history (or rather what they think was her medical history). And then I get the ones who are positive that I am being paid by a cosmetic company or the American Academy of Dermatology. You are right … nothing is off limits for them. And hopefully others who are listening or reading can figure out what is true and what is not. Keep up the good work and keep speaking out!!!

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        bcl
        Participant

        Oh Donna.. I am horrified at what you have to endure – what an amazing woman you are! Today I watched Nobel Laureate Betty Williams say she took all of her inspiration from motherhood.. and that it was important to embrace our shameless idealism. She turned her anger at witnessing the death of three small children into a passion to make change.

         I admire you so much for your tenacity Donna and would be delighted if you would email me   ( [email protected] )  Perhaps we can share tactics:) 

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        bcl
        Participant

        Oh Donna.. I am horrified at what you have to endure – what an amazing woman you are! Today I watched Nobel Laureate Betty Williams say she took all of her inspiration from motherhood.. and that it was important to embrace our shameless idealism. She turned her anger at witnessing the death of three small children into a passion to make change.

         I admire you so much for your tenacity Donna and would be delighted if you would email me   ( [email protected] )  Perhaps we can share tactics:) 

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