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Copper water pipes increase growth of some cancers/BRAF-positive cancers

Forums General Melanoma Community Copper water pipes increase growth of some cancers/BRAF-positive cancers

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      Kim K
      Participant

        FWIW –

        I question the sources where this theory comes from.  None of the sites listed at the bottom come from "established" research peer reviewed articles but from "natural / alternative" sites.  For starters.  Duke on the otherhand has an excellent research department.

        How exactly does cancer "breathe".  This casts further doubt on the validity of the work unless the mechanism of action has been studied, and the breathing thing used to try to bring it down to a layperson's level of understanding.

        Using rats alone in a cancer study doesn't count because any rat over 2 years of age without a cancerous tumor is a miracle in and of itself.  (I am a veterinarian so know how exteremly common it is).  The animal model being used needs to be judiciously selected as a result.  The Seralini study feeding GMOs to rats is a classic example of bad scientific technique and conclusions.  Unfortunately it is still being quoted by activists to push their anti-science stance.  That is a different topic though.

        Don't forget about sample size and how statistics were applied.

        I can understand a possible connection between Braf mutated cells somehow requiring an increased metabolic demand for copper versus other cell types.  This should be well documented and studied directly from the reseachers papers.  Please realize that some of the "soft" publications tend to sensationalize findings in order to gain readership, but just short of a tabloid or Dr. on TV thing.

        Copper is also essential for proper immune function.  This has been well documented in animal studies.  It is a VERY important trace mineral.  That being said, too much of a good thing is bad.  While goats demand high copper levels, the same levels can kill a sheep in short order.  Wilson's Disease is common in West Highland white terriers and requires chelation therapy & copper reducing drugs.

        In summary, I think it is interesting to persue but I question the alamist verbage used by the article's author.  Whenever I hear stuff presented like that I run away as fast as I can.  A key point that seems to be lost on such publications is corelation does not equal causation.  A point to study perhaps, but nothing to hang your hat on just yet.

        IMHO

        I have seen too much manipulation of data and poor "scientific" research done in the past, for whatever reason.

        Thanks for posting though, interesting to see how things pan out on this.

          Gene_S
          Participant

            Hi Kim,

            Thanks for the kind reply.  There is some related info @

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9664150

            Serum zinc levels are increased in melanoma patients.

            Author information

            • 1Division of Clinical Analysis, School of Medicine, University of Murcia, Spain.

            Abstract

            We studied the levels of serum copper and zinc as possible diagnostic factors or markers for the early detection of patients with melanoma. Levels were determined in 35 melanoma patients at various clinical stages and in 39 healthy persons. Measurements were performed by atomic absorption spectroscopy using 5100-PC-Perkin-Elmer equipment. We found that serum copper levels were very similar in the melanoma patients and the healthy individuals, the medium values being 118.32 +/- 25.32 micrograms/dl and 117.94 +/- 28.01 micrograms/dl, respectively. Therefore, no significant differences were observed with regard to copper levels. On the other hand, we obtained a medium value of 82.32 +/- 25.38 micrograms/dl for serum zinc levels in the melanoma patients and 56.72 +/- 11.79 micrograms/dl in the healthy persons, which represents a very significant increase in the serum levels of zinc in melanoma patients (P < 0.0001). A receiver operating characteristic (ROC) curve statistical analysis was also performed; the cut-off value obtained was 60.9 micrograms/dl. According to our results, zinc is increased in 86.5% of melanoma patients. Although further investigations are needed to assess its value in prognosis and follow-up, evaluation of serum zinc level could be a good tool to check for the presence of melanoma.

            PMID:
            9664150
            [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]
            —————————————————————–
            • Performing your original search, melanoma and copper, in PubMed will retrieve 200 records.

             

            bj63
            Participant

              Just keep in mind that correlation does not equal causation.  Are zinc levels high because the person has melanoma, or did the melanoma occur because the zinc levels are high?  Those are two entirely different situations.  It would be the same with copper or any other potential indicator.  A lot of these junk science news articles should be taken with a grain of salt.

              bj63
              Participant

                Just keep in mind that correlation does not equal causation.  Are zinc levels high because the person has melanoma, or did the melanoma occur because the zinc levels are high?  Those are two entirely different situations.  It would be the same with copper or any other potential indicator.  A lot of these junk science news articles should be taken with a grain of salt.

                bj63
                Participant

                  Just keep in mind that correlation does not equal causation.  Are zinc levels high because the person has melanoma, or did the melanoma occur because the zinc levels are high?  Those are two entirely different situations.  It would be the same with copper or any other potential indicator.  A lot of these junk science news articles should be taken with a grain of salt.

                  Gene_S
                  Participant

                    Hi Kim,

                    Thanks for the kind reply.  There is some related info @

                    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9664150

                    Serum zinc levels are increased in melanoma patients.

                    Author information

                    • 1Division of Clinical Analysis, School of Medicine, University of Murcia, Spain.

                    Abstract

                    We studied the levels of serum copper and zinc as possible diagnostic factors or markers for the early detection of patients with melanoma. Levels were determined in 35 melanoma patients at various clinical stages and in 39 healthy persons. Measurements were performed by atomic absorption spectroscopy using 5100-PC-Perkin-Elmer equipment. We found that serum copper levels were very similar in the melanoma patients and the healthy individuals, the medium values being 118.32 +/- 25.32 micrograms/dl and 117.94 +/- 28.01 micrograms/dl, respectively. Therefore, no significant differences were observed with regard to copper levels. On the other hand, we obtained a medium value of 82.32 +/- 25.38 micrograms/dl for serum zinc levels in the melanoma patients and 56.72 +/- 11.79 micrograms/dl in the healthy persons, which represents a very significant increase in the serum levels of zinc in melanoma patients (P < 0.0001). A receiver operating characteristic (ROC) curve statistical analysis was also performed; the cut-off value obtained was 60.9 micrograms/dl. According to our results, zinc is increased in 86.5% of melanoma patients. Although further investigations are needed to assess its value in prognosis and follow-up, evaluation of serum zinc level could be a good tool to check for the presence of melanoma.

                    PMID:
                    9664150
                    [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]
                    —————————————————————–
                    • Performing your original search, melanoma and copper, in PubMed will retrieve 200 records.

                     

                    Gene_S
                    Participant

                      Hi Kim,

                      Thanks for the kind reply.  There is some related info @

                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9664150

                      Serum zinc levels are increased in melanoma patients.

                      Author information

                      • 1Division of Clinical Analysis, School of Medicine, University of Murcia, Spain.

                      Abstract

                      We studied the levels of serum copper and zinc as possible diagnostic factors or markers for the early detection of patients with melanoma. Levels were determined in 35 melanoma patients at various clinical stages and in 39 healthy persons. Measurements were performed by atomic absorption spectroscopy using 5100-PC-Perkin-Elmer equipment. We found that serum copper levels were very similar in the melanoma patients and the healthy individuals, the medium values being 118.32 +/- 25.32 micrograms/dl and 117.94 +/- 28.01 micrograms/dl, respectively. Therefore, no significant differences were observed with regard to copper levels. On the other hand, we obtained a medium value of 82.32 +/- 25.38 micrograms/dl for serum zinc levels in the melanoma patients and 56.72 +/- 11.79 micrograms/dl in the healthy persons, which represents a very significant increase in the serum levels of zinc in melanoma patients (P < 0.0001). A receiver operating characteristic (ROC) curve statistical analysis was also performed; the cut-off value obtained was 60.9 micrograms/dl. According to our results, zinc is increased in 86.5% of melanoma patients. Although further investigations are needed to assess its value in prognosis and follow-up, evaluation of serum zinc level could be a good tool to check for the presence of melanoma.

                      PMID:
                      9664150
                      [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]
                      —————————————————————–
                      • Performing your original search, melanoma and copper, in PubMed will retrieve 200 records.

                       

                    Kim K
                    Participant

                      FWIW –

                      I question the sources where this theory comes from.  None of the sites listed at the bottom come from "established" research peer reviewed articles but from "natural / alternative" sites.  For starters.  Duke on the otherhand has an excellent research department.

                      How exactly does cancer "breathe".  This casts further doubt on the validity of the work unless the mechanism of action has been studied, and the breathing thing used to try to bring it down to a layperson's level of understanding.

                      Using rats alone in a cancer study doesn't count because any rat over 2 years of age without a cancerous tumor is a miracle in and of itself.  (I am a veterinarian so know how exteremly common it is).  The animal model being used needs to be judiciously selected as a result.  The Seralini study feeding GMOs to rats is a classic example of bad scientific technique and conclusions.  Unfortunately it is still being quoted by activists to push their anti-science stance.  That is a different topic though.

                      Don't forget about sample size and how statistics were applied.

                      I can understand a possible connection between Braf mutated cells somehow requiring an increased metabolic demand for copper versus other cell types.  This should be well documented and studied directly from the reseachers papers.  Please realize that some of the "soft" publications tend to sensationalize findings in order to gain readership, but just short of a tabloid or Dr. on TV thing.

                      Copper is also essential for proper immune function.  This has been well documented in animal studies.  It is a VERY important trace mineral.  That being said, too much of a good thing is bad.  While goats demand high copper levels, the same levels can kill a sheep in short order.  Wilson's Disease is common in West Highland white terriers and requires chelation therapy & copper reducing drugs.

                      In summary, I think it is interesting to persue but I question the alamist verbage used by the article's author.  Whenever I hear stuff presented like that I run away as fast as I can.  A key point that seems to be lost on such publications is corelation does not equal causation.  A point to study perhaps, but nothing to hang your hat on just yet.

                      IMHO

                      I have seen too much manipulation of data and poor "scientific" research done in the past, for whatever reason.

                      Thanks for posting though, interesting to see how things pan out on this.

                      Kim K
                      Participant

                        FWIW –

                        I question the sources where this theory comes from.  None of the sites listed at the bottom come from "established" research peer reviewed articles but from "natural / alternative" sites.  For starters.  Duke on the otherhand has an excellent research department.

                        How exactly does cancer "breathe".  This casts further doubt on the validity of the work unless the mechanism of action has been studied, and the breathing thing used to try to bring it down to a layperson's level of understanding.

                        Using rats alone in a cancer study doesn't count because any rat over 2 years of age without a cancerous tumor is a miracle in and of itself.  (I am a veterinarian so know how exteremly common it is).  The animal model being used needs to be judiciously selected as a result.  The Seralini study feeding GMOs to rats is a classic example of bad scientific technique and conclusions.  Unfortunately it is still being quoted by activists to push their anti-science stance.  That is a different topic though.

                        Don't forget about sample size and how statistics were applied.

                        I can understand a possible connection between Braf mutated cells somehow requiring an increased metabolic demand for copper versus other cell types.  This should be well documented and studied directly from the reseachers papers.  Please realize that some of the "soft" publications tend to sensationalize findings in order to gain readership, but just short of a tabloid or Dr. on TV thing.

                        Copper is also essential for proper immune function.  This has been well documented in animal studies.  It is a VERY important trace mineral.  That being said, too much of a good thing is bad.  While goats demand high copper levels, the same levels can kill a sheep in short order.  Wilson's Disease is common in West Highland white terriers and requires chelation therapy & copper reducing drugs.

                        In summary, I think it is interesting to persue but I question the alamist verbage used by the article's author.  Whenever I hear stuff presented like that I run away as fast as I can.  A key point that seems to be lost on such publications is corelation does not equal causation.  A point to study perhaps, but nothing to hang your hat on just yet.

                        IMHO

                        I have seen too much manipulation of data and poor "scientific" research done in the past, for whatever reason.

                        Thanks for posting though, interesting to see how things pan out on this.

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