› Forums › General Melanoma Community › Chat and posting
- This topic has 30 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 2 months ago by
kylez.
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- March 15, 2013 at 4:08 pm
We have all been frustrated with Chat not working and with some issues related to posting. Here is an update.
I just had a call with Janner and our IT folks (thanks Janner!) and I think we have a better understanding of the chat and posting issues.
Apparently Chat requires "flash" and some recent updates to flash are incompatable with the current Chat software we use. Our IT folks are working with the vendor on an update that is compatible, but are not sure how long that will take.
We have all been frustrated with Chat not working and with some issues related to posting. Here is an update.
I just had a call with Janner and our IT folks (thanks Janner!) and I think we have a better understanding of the chat and posting issues.
Apparently Chat requires "flash" and some recent updates to flash are incompatable with the current Chat software we use. Our IT folks are working with the vendor on an update that is compatible, but are not sure how long that will take.
In the meantime, we have asked them to find an "off the shelf" chat software program that will allow us to have some kind of chat capability. This will likely be a stripped down version with less functionality, and may be prone to spam. Our feeling, though, is that it is better to have an inelegant solution now rather than a perfect solution at some future time. This will hopefully be up and running in the next couple of days, and will only be in place until we get the main chat room software working again.
Also, we have all seen long delays between when we hig "post topic" and when the post actually occurs. This results in some people accidentally posting multiple times. Apparently this is because of some issues with the service that blocks spam. Again, they are working on a solution but it may take a while. In the interim, they will put a message on the board saying that posts take a few seconds to process and asking people to only hit the "post topic" button once.
Again, I apologize for the issues we have had and appreciate your input and patience.
Tim–MRF
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- March 15, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Flash outdated and unpatched on the Server?
Not Installing software updates and patches shows complacency or lack of skills at the Network System Adminstration and Security Administration levels. As witnessed here and now with chat, forgoing updates and patches creates system instability, performance and security issues.
Free Adobe Flash Media Server Updates are available here:
http://www.adobe.com/support/flashmediaserver/downloads_updaters.html
It is simpe, intuitive and involves no more than hour to propogate, including system restart.
The choice to scrap flash all together and deploy some "off the rack" IRQ (chat) program in lieu of a simple server software updateis is unwise both from a cost and performance standpoint.
MRF has already paid in one form or another for the Flash Server deployment, all it needs is a quick and free update. Why put in something untested on this site , burn more cash for the software and Tech time aall the while throwing out something that was never broken, just neglected? Makes no sense.
Also because Adobe cross platform products are already incorporated in other elements on this site, there is a greater risk of incompatability by removing Flash from the cross platform..
Update, patch, reboot the server and be done with it.
Again this is entirely a matter of Network/Server/Database/Security System Administration not doing what they are paid to do. Had they done their job in the first place this would not be an issue.
Who ARE these people telling you this stuff? Are they Comp Tia Certified? Microsoft Certified? Cisco Certified?
The single, most valuable asset the MRF has is this Website, Buletin Board and Chat room; doesn't sound like this "Vendor" is up to the task of maintaining it.
Sloppy work.
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- March 15, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Flash outdated and unpatched on the Server?
Not Installing software updates and patches shows complacency or lack of skills at the Network System Adminstration and Security Administration levels. As witnessed here and now with chat, forgoing updates and patches creates system instability, performance and security issues.
Free Adobe Flash Media Server Updates are available here:
http://www.adobe.com/support/flashmediaserver/downloads_updaters.html
It is simpe, intuitive and involves no more than hour to propogate, including system restart.
The choice to scrap flash all together and deploy some "off the rack" IRQ (chat) program in lieu of a simple server software updateis is unwise both from a cost and performance standpoint.
MRF has already paid in one form or another for the Flash Server deployment, all it needs is a quick and free update. Why put in something untested on this site , burn more cash for the software and Tech time aall the while throwing out something that was never broken, just neglected? Makes no sense.
Also because Adobe cross platform products are already incorporated in other elements on this site, there is a greater risk of incompatability by removing Flash from the cross platform..
Update, patch, reboot the server and be done with it.
Again this is entirely a matter of Network/Server/Database/Security System Administration not doing what they are paid to do. Had they done their job in the first place this would not be an issue.
Who ARE these people telling you this stuff? Are they Comp Tia Certified? Microsoft Certified? Cisco Certified?
The single, most valuable asset the MRF has is this Website, Buletin Board and Chat room; doesn't sound like this "Vendor" is up to the task of maintaining it.
Sloppy work.
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- March 15, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Flash outdated and unpatched on the Server?
Not Installing software updates and patches shows complacency or lack of skills at the Network System Adminstration and Security Administration levels. As witnessed here and now with chat, forgoing updates and patches creates system instability, performance and security issues.
Free Adobe Flash Media Server Updates are available here:
http://www.adobe.com/support/flashmediaserver/downloads_updaters.html
It is simpe, intuitive and involves no more than hour to propogate, including system restart.
The choice to scrap flash all together and deploy some "off the rack" IRQ (chat) program in lieu of a simple server software updateis is unwise both from a cost and performance standpoint.
MRF has already paid in one form or another for the Flash Server deployment, all it needs is a quick and free update. Why put in something untested on this site , burn more cash for the software and Tech time aall the while throwing out something that was never broken, just neglected? Makes no sense.
Also because Adobe cross platform products are already incorporated in other elements on this site, there is a greater risk of incompatability by removing Flash from the cross platform..
Update, patch, reboot the server and be done with it.
Again this is entirely a matter of Network/Server/Database/Security System Administration not doing what they are paid to do. Had they done their job in the first place this would not be an issue.
Who ARE these people telling you this stuff? Are they Comp Tia Certified? Microsoft Certified? Cisco Certified?
The single, most valuable asset the MRF has is this Website, Buletin Board and Chat room; doesn't sound like this "Vendor" is up to the task of maintaining it.
Sloppy work.
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- March 15, 2013 at 9:41 pm
I guess this is in part my 'sympathy for the devil' post. I once tried to support a few very minor features on a few open source BBS systems and it's a thankless job. Especially when custom integrations are almost always required. Once somthing becomes incompatible, it can be a sinkhole of time/hours/work to try and fix. Even a seemingly simple web site is a complex layer of parts integrating with complex layers of parts on the client PCs. I'm sure it's not an easy compromise in terms of what MRF is able to pay — $, $$ or $$$ per hour for IT support.
On the posting delay issue, what I noticed was that when I post, the page hangs. But if open a second window immediately, my post is already up. Why the original window hangs for variable amounts of time, I have no idea. Right after you post, while your window is hanging, try opening a second window. Whenever I try it, my post is already there, even though the "posting" window is sitting there stuck.
– Kyle
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- March 15, 2013 at 9:41 pm
I guess this is in part my 'sympathy for the devil' post. I once tried to support a few very minor features on a few open source BBS systems and it's a thankless job. Especially when custom integrations are almost always required. Once somthing becomes incompatible, it can be a sinkhole of time/hours/work to try and fix. Even a seemingly simple web site is a complex layer of parts integrating with complex layers of parts on the client PCs. I'm sure it's not an easy compromise in terms of what MRF is able to pay — $, $$ or $$$ per hour for IT support.
On the posting delay issue, what I noticed was that when I post, the page hangs. But if open a second window immediately, my post is already up. Why the original window hangs for variable amounts of time, I have no idea. Right after you post, while your window is hanging, try opening a second window. Whenever I try it, my post is already there, even though the "posting" window is sitting there stuck.
– Kyle
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- March 15, 2013 at 10:24 pm
That's a good tip of the posting delay/hang Kyle and it does work.
What your solution does is force the first page into virtual cache so as to allow the new tab to load straight away, upon returning to the first page, virtual cache propagated the post and what the page view shows is still in Ram.
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- March 15, 2013 at 10:24 pm
That's a good tip of the posting delay/hang Kyle and it does work.
What your solution does is force the first page into virtual cache so as to allow the new tab to load straight away, upon returning to the first page, virtual cache propagated the post and what the page view shows is still in Ram.
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- March 15, 2013 at 11:44 pm
The browser I usually use is Safari on a Mac. Whether a cache or caches come into play on the client side, server side, or both I couldn't say. From my point of view, the first (posting) window *seems* to have a problem returning or redirecting or reloading what shoudl be the newly posted page.
What it doesn't seem to be, is some lengthy spam script taking forever to run on the server — because in the second window, the post is there right away. If it was a spam script running forever, the post would not be there in the second window because the spam script would not have completed yet. At least, *assuming* the spam script would have to complete before the post was put into the database and made available to be seen. But whether that's the case, I don't know.
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- March 15, 2013 at 11:44 pm
The browser I usually use is Safari on a Mac. Whether a cache or caches come into play on the client side, server side, or both I couldn't say. From my point of view, the first (posting) window *seems* to have a problem returning or redirecting or reloading what shoudl be the newly posted page.
What it doesn't seem to be, is some lengthy spam script taking forever to run on the server — because in the second window, the post is there right away. If it was a spam script running forever, the post would not be there in the second window because the spam script would not have completed yet. At least, *assuming* the spam script would have to complete before the post was put into the database and made available to be seen. But whether that's the case, I don't know.
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- March 15, 2013 at 11:44 pm
The browser I usually use is Safari on a Mac. Whether a cache or caches come into play on the client side, server side, or both I couldn't say. From my point of view, the first (posting) window *seems* to have a problem returning or redirecting or reloading what shoudl be the newly posted page.
What it doesn't seem to be, is some lengthy spam script taking forever to run on the server — because in the second window, the post is there right away. If it was a spam script running forever, the post would not be there in the second window because the spam script would not have completed yet. At least, *assuming* the spam script would have to complete before the post was put into the database and made available to be seen. But whether that's the case, I don't know.
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- March 16, 2013 at 1:41 am
What I should have said is it forces the BROWSER page cache. Each Browser is different of it's handling of page cache.
Bearing in mind that in the OSI 7 (network stack model), the internet only operates , in theory , on the Physical, Data and Network level, yet on an interactive level interacts with TCP and IP at the Session level………..which is not supposed to happen.
This is stretching a bit from the original subject, of how to force cache, which is a common tactic with gamers during overclocking;
What you are "seeing" on your screen in what appears to be a page stall is the the Physical Layer, this is because in the Network Stack, Data Packets flow DOWN on sending and flow UP to receiving. In other words when sending you see it last…..but push in another stack and you see it quicker…………….even before the first stack.
The first "posting" from your keyboard has to travel 14 times (OSI7 in OSI7 out), open a new tab, depending on your browser, can at least cut it half,
Remember, sending goes down the network stack and receiving goes up the network stack; adding and stripping headers at each point.Maxiumum data payload at 1500, headers no more than 38.
As far as script running forever(loopback) that is a seperate issue; because the person that wrote that script failed to define the buffer. IVp6 will prevent that. Good anti-virus software will prohibit loopback scripts as you describe
Are we having fun yet?
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- March 16, 2013 at 1:41 am
What I should have said is it forces the BROWSER page cache. Each Browser is different of it's handling of page cache.
Bearing in mind that in the OSI 7 (network stack model), the internet only operates , in theory , on the Physical, Data and Network level, yet on an interactive level interacts with TCP and IP at the Session level………..which is not supposed to happen.
This is stretching a bit from the original subject, of how to force cache, which is a common tactic with gamers during overclocking;
What you are "seeing" on your screen in what appears to be a page stall is the the Physical Layer, this is because in the Network Stack, Data Packets flow DOWN on sending and flow UP to receiving. In other words when sending you see it last…..but push in another stack and you see it quicker…………….even before the first stack.
The first "posting" from your keyboard has to travel 14 times (OSI7 in OSI7 out), open a new tab, depending on your browser, can at least cut it half,
Remember, sending goes down the network stack and receiving goes up the network stack; adding and stripping headers at each point.Maxiumum data payload at 1500, headers no more than 38.
As far as script running forever(loopback) that is a seperate issue; because the person that wrote that script failed to define the buffer. IVp6 will prevent that. Good anti-virus software will prohibit loopback scripts as you describe
Are we having fun yet?
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- March 16, 2013 at 1:57 am
Great. In between all of that we want chat. And for the MRF to propose a solution known to invite Spam and all the other Malware as a temporary solution is irresponsible………………and dangerous.
I want to chat and expose my system to known malware?
No thanks Tim. Why don't you send me a Tanning Booth instead…………does about as much good.
Charlie S
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- March 16, 2013 at 1:57 am
Great. In between all of that we want chat. And for the MRF to propose a solution known to invite Spam and all the other Malware as a temporary solution is irresponsible………………and dangerous.
I want to chat and expose my system to known malware?
No thanks Tim. Why don't you send me a Tanning Booth instead…………does about as much good.
Charlie S
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- March 16, 2013 at 1:57 am
Great. In between all of that we want chat. And for the MRF to propose a solution known to invite Spam and all the other Malware as a temporary solution is irresponsible………………and dangerous.
I want to chat and expose my system to known malware?
No thanks Tim. Why don't you send me a Tanning Booth instead…………does about as much good.
Charlie S
-
- March 16, 2013 at 1:41 am
What I should have said is it forces the BROWSER page cache. Each Browser is different of it's handling of page cache.
Bearing in mind that in the OSI 7 (network stack model), the internet only operates , in theory , on the Physical, Data and Network level, yet on an interactive level interacts with TCP and IP at the Session level………..which is not supposed to happen.
This is stretching a bit from the original subject, of how to force cache, which is a common tactic with gamers during overclocking;
What you are "seeing" on your screen in what appears to be a page stall is the the Physical Layer, this is because in the Network Stack, Data Packets flow DOWN on sending and flow UP to receiving. In other words when sending you see it last…..but push in another stack and you see it quicker…………….even before the first stack.
The first "posting" from your keyboard has to travel 14 times (OSI7 in OSI7 out), open a new tab, depending on your browser, can at least cut it half,
Remember, sending goes down the network stack and receiving goes up the network stack; adding and stripping headers at each point.Maxiumum data payload at 1500, headers no more than 38.
As far as script running forever(loopback) that is a seperate issue; because the person that wrote that script failed to define the buffer. IVp6 will prevent that. Good anti-virus software will prohibit loopback scripts as you describe
Are we having fun yet?
-
- March 15, 2013 at 10:24 pm
That's a good tip of the posting delay/hang Kyle and it does work.
What your solution does is force the first page into virtual cache so as to allow the new tab to load straight away, upon returning to the first page, virtual cache propagated the post and what the page view shows is still in Ram.
-
- March 15, 2013 at 9:41 pm
I guess this is in part my 'sympathy for the devil' post. I once tried to support a few very minor features on a few open source BBS systems and it's a thankless job. Especially when custom integrations are almost always required. Once somthing becomes incompatible, it can be a sinkhole of time/hours/work to try and fix. Even a seemingly simple web site is a complex layer of parts integrating with complex layers of parts on the client PCs. I'm sure it's not an easy compromise in terms of what MRF is able to pay — $, $$ or $$$ per hour for IT support.
On the posting delay issue, what I noticed was that when I post, the page hangs. But if open a second window immediately, my post is already up. Why the original window hangs for variable amounts of time, I have no idea. Right after you post, while your window is hanging, try opening a second window. Whenever I try it, my post is already there, even though the "posting" window is sitting there stuck.
– Kyle
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