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Want to Make the Right Choices….But What Are They? Pre-Cancerous Help Please!

Forums Cutaneous Melanoma Community Want to Make the Right Choices….But What Are They? Pre-Cancerous Help Please!

  • Post
    contributor
    Participant

      Hi All – I'm flipping out a little bit so any guidance/thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated :/

      I have received a pathology report from my dermatologist and it has been recommended that I have my mole re-excised. The dermatologist would like to do 5mm margins and has mentioned going 5mm deep to the subcutaneous fat layer (I am not happy about this and would like to leave this layer alone…the cells are said to be in the epidermis and epidermis-dermis junction only so why go that deep? Too big of a margin to me). Please recognize, while I am not thrilled about the idea of a scar my concern is NOT stemming from cosmetic concerns and IS stemming from physiological concerns…I am a very active person and this is on the back of my left calf. I use my calf a lot with everything from 8 mile hikes to water rowing to running 5ks to using a versa climber, weight lifting, etc. I have a lot of anxiety and exercise is my everything.

      I have read several horror stories online from wide local excisions of this type where people experienced permanent nerve damage, muscle damage, and basically an inability to be really active or train hard. I'm a 26-year-old female, very fair and pale, avoid the sun during the hours of 10-4 and wear sunscreen religiously. I also routinely wear long pants and even jackets in the car to avoid the sun. I'm miffed that I would have a "precancerous" atypical cell situation.

      Basically…my question is two fold:

      1) what if I decide not to re-excise this? what are the changes this remains benign?

      and 2) would Mohs provide me with a better physiological outcome (I'm speaking with a Mohs surgeon next week but would like to hear from others here)? Or is there a way to specifically get my doctor to confirm that he will not cut into the subcutaneous fat layer or that he will stay in the epidermal and epidermal/dermal junction range in terms of depth?

      Here is the pathology report, word for word:

      Submitted is a single slide of shave biopsy material which shows a junctional melanocytic proliferation composed of slightly enlarged and hyperchromatic melanocytes located at the base of the junction as well as along sides of rete ridges. There are some single melanocytes within the spinous layer as well. There is a back-ground of a patchy lymphoid infiltrate that partially effaces the junction in some areas. The proliferation overall does not appear sharply circumscribed and extends to the lateral biopsy edge.

      Diganosis: Skin, left calf, inflamed atypical junctional melanocytic proliferation, extending to a peripheral tissue edge.

      Comment: Given the clinical diameter of a 7mm plaque, the findings are concerning for a junctional nevus with atypical melanocytic hyperplasia at least. A melanoma in-situ is not completely excluded. Deeper levels would be of value. Pending review, complete re-excision with appropriate clinical margins is recommended.

      Addendum: Left calf – Recuts reveal areas of more severe cytologic atypia that is asymmetric and extends to the lateral margin. Diagnosis is amended to: Skin, left calf, junctional atypical melanocytic hyperplasia with adjacent nevus. Complete re-excision with appropriate margins is recommended.

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        jennunicorn
        Participant

          My melanoma was on my calf, so my margins were much much larger than the 5mm you're looking at and my calf healed up fine and I have no issues. I have not heard anyone on here mention issues with their WLE, I believe the problems you have read about are very very rare for something so minor. 5mm is tiny and will heal quick and won't cause issues with your usual activity. No reason to leave cells that could maybe turn into something serious.. why risk it?

            contributor
            Participant

              It didn't affect your muscle at all? What was your mm width/depth? It's encouraging to hear that yours turned out okay. I know I'm lucky compared to so many people dealing with this but I also don't want to not do my due diligence and make sure I make the best decision for my body. Hopefully I have another 60 years with it. 

              jennunicorn
              Participant

                They don't cut into muscle at all, so the muscle is fine and not affected. Mine was tight for a couple of weeks, but I walked my dog every day, went to work, did all the normal stuff I do, and then incorporated hikes and other physical activities after a couple of weeks of healing. WLEs are incredibly common, because there are lots of folks like yourself who get a mole biopsied that isn't cancerous, but needs to have all the cells removed to make sure the funky ones don't turn into something down the line. Honestly, this will be a teeny tiny amount of time in your life with a little scar to heal and then you'll wonder "why was I so worried?".  

              Janner
              Participant

                Standard protocol for a severely atypical lesion are 5mm margins.  This is typically removing all tissue down to the muscle fascia.  There is a fine line between severely atypical lesions and melanoma in situ.  That's why they are typically removed with the same margins.  If you had clean margins, you could risk this and not have the re-excision.  Since your margins were not clean, it's a fairly decent risk leaving cells behind.

                  My first melanoma had larger margins and was not on the calf, but right on the shin bone where skin was very tight.  At this time, I played a lot of competitive tennis.  I wrapped the calf well and was playing tennis before the stitches were removed although I did try to take it a little easy.  I've had about 10 WLEs in various areas over the years (one on my calf also) and I've never had any issues being active.  In fact, I've been on this site for over 15 years and honestly have not heard much in the way of problems with WLEs that cause any longterm issues.  Short term – mostly just worrying about stitches being pulled.  Nerve damage?  Yes, some people experience numbness on the skin with large wide excisions, but you aren't having a large re-excision.  And even those do not prevent doing anything active.  Certainly make shaving weird when you cannot feel the skin.  (Many knee surgeries have given me this situation – skin numb but no functional problems).  I honestly think you might be overestimating what typically happens on a WLE.  And remember, this is only 5mm margins – a minimum.  Most people with melanoma have much larger margins.

                You can consider Mohs – the only real problem with Mohs and melanocytes are that melanocytes don't show up well using frozen section techniques.  That is how tissue is analyzed for Mohs.  Melanocytes show up better when processed in parafiin and stained.  Mohs is not generally used for melanoma for this reason.  But if you want conservative larger margins, that is definitely a possibility.

                  contributor
                  Participant

                    Thanks for this! It's really good to hear from another active person who has had several of these. I am actually a bit overweight but have very thin calves and legs below the knee so everytime I think of them cutting into my leg…I think about cutting into muscle and affecting my ability to be physical. I think it is particularly disheartening because I have been doing really well in terms of building up my exercise intensity level and fixing my nutrition. I've been losing weight and toning up and exercising even more intensely and feeling great. So now knowing that they want me to go back in freaks me out :/ When you said that Mohs would offer more conservative and larger margins did you mean it would be bigger?! I would like to take the least amount possible. I definitely want to take 4mm vs 6mm, etc. I was under the impression that Mohs would take less and leave me with more skin/not go as deep. 

                    Janner
                    Participant

                      Mohs would potentially take less, but honestly Mohs isn't considered the standard of care because it has more difficulty identifying melanocytes. 

                      contributor
                      Participant

                        Also I noticed you mentioned having a WLE on your calf and it being very tight and a bad area to have a WLE in? I have to admit…this is my concern. That it will be tight, uncomfortable, and there will be muscle pain. 

                        Janner
                        Participant

                          Yes, it will be tight and uncomfortable – for a couple of weeks.  Then it's over.  Quite tight while the stitches are in, then less so as you move out over time.  Coban/wrap around the area will help support it and make it less prone to problems.  I've never had muscle pain – it's only skin deep.  I had a very large WLE on my shoulder blade, my other shin, outside ankle, calf, thighs, forearm and more on my back.  They go down to the muscle area but they don't cut into the muscle at all.  Removing the tissue down to the muscle might actually allow them to pull the skin together easier.  I've had so many of these that I honestly consider it just an inconvenience at most and don't stress it in the very least.  My biggest issue with having these is my allergies to adhesives.  So from my perspective as a long time veteran, you are making this a bigger deal than is necessary.  (Age and experience talking, I know that only helps so much.   But I was 29 when I had my first one and 54 now).  Yes, you WILL be inconvenienced for a while, but long term you won't even know you had anything done except for a faded white scar.

                          contributor
                          Participant

                            Thanks! I feel so much better hearing this. It sounds like from what I have heard that 5mm is small but the scar will be decently big. Like I said, I really don't care if I have a scar in the end as long as I am healthy and able to use my leg muscle like usual. Do you have an opinion on using a plastic surgeon vs a regular dermatologist (who is not a Mohs surgeon)? 

                          tanusharma
                          Participant

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                            ldub
                            Participant

                              My melanoma in situ was on my left lateral calf.  My WLE was performed by a dermatologist at a major medical center/melanoma center of excellence. I had the recommended excision of 5 mm in each direction down to muscle fascia and have had zero problems with function or loss of sensation on the skin level.  There is a light faded scar now, after 2 years.  I am a very active person – alpine skiing, coaching and racing, jogging, and I have to keep up with my two young boys!  I would look for a surgeon or dermatologist with a ton of experience in removing skin lesions like yours.  You can ask them about complications, but I think you will find that this operation is fairly bread and butter stuff to them unless a flap or skiin graft is necessary. Also, follow recovery recommendations – you will probably find the dialed-down activity for a bit to be the most frustrating part!

                              messedmelanocytes
                              Participant

                                I am in the same boat as yourself having had 2 insitus and then a series of WLEs and more biopsies that came back as dysplastic nevi some of which have required larger re exicision. I'm loosing count but think I am up to 8 cuttings for one reason or another since January.  I am an avid cyclist spending many hours on my bike each weekend and also work out with weights at the gym  for about 5 hours a week. My surgeon insists after each procedure that I do not sweat for two weeks, no gym, no cycling allowed. This I find quite a hardship. I try to get multiple procedures done at once so if I have to be idle it isn't for successive two week periods. It has been tough, lots of restarts for training and slow progress at getting up to top shape this season.    

                                I see the intrusion into my fitness routine as part and pacel of the fight against MM, it can't be avoided, it is what it is. It doesn't make any rational sense to risk reoccurance by avoiding the surgery so that you can enhance your health through uninterrupted excercise. So, I look at it from the perspective that for me, going through these minor surgeries and having to avoid exercise is all part of my being healthy routine.

                                If your primary motivator to exercise comes from managing anxiety you could investigate alternative practises for managing anxiety so that not exercising does not trigger anxiety for you.   

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